freddy333

UPDATE -- For those who have not been following the frustrating & near daily trials & tribulations of this build on RWI, the work has been painfully slow, but is nearly complete. 2 items remain on my to-do list -- 1. The bezel insert in the pic is just sitting loose in the bezel channel. On this particular 'clone', the insert is held in with a ring of adhesive instead of being pressed into the bezel like the gen. I am awaiting the bezel adhesive ring, which should be here by tomorrow or Friday. I would have preferred a press-fit insert, but since there is no difference in the external appearance & pressing these ceramic inserts is a risky (ie, expensive to replace when they crack) proposition, I can live with it. 2. For some reason, unlike the 1165xx Daytona clones I have worked on, although the gen balance/bridge fits perfectly, it does not function properly in these 3186 'clone' movements. I think the balance rim may be coming into contact with the main plate, which suggests that either the gen balance staff pivots are shorter than the 'clone' pivots, or the cap jewels are positioned differently, or the pallets or pallet stones may be oriented differently. So, for now at least, I will not be able to install the display caseback since the lack of a free-sprung balance is a dead-give-away. My plan is to disassemble my original 3186 'clone', fit only the balance to the main plate & see where the problem lies -- & fix it. But with all of the externally visible gen parts installed, this thing definitely looks & feels the part. In addition to eliminating the very minor tells that existed in my original ETA-powered 116710LN franken (a few months ago, I swapped the ETA for a generic '3186' I sourced on ebay that mostly fit), it also feels a bit weightier & more solid. I am not quite sure what is causing the greater solidity, but it is definitely something you can feel when holding or wearing this watch. Like the Big Kahuna, even out of the box, Andrew's GMT is quite wearable with a degree of confidence. Where the out-of-the-box 'clone' falls short is the AR coating on the cyclops, which is described as 'With light AR on Cyclops like Genuine'. I do not see it. Having done a bit of research & experimentation on this subject a dozen or more years ago (there is a thread or 2 on RWG if you care to spend the time to search this forum), if there is AR on the cyclops, it is insufficient to create that very identifiable (from across the room) 'black hole effect' over the date that gen crystals are known when light hits the entire crystal -- & that unmistakable rainbow you see in normal (non-reflecting) light (see pic below of my watch with gen crystal installed). Also, like the Big Kahuna, because this is the original style of 116710 with the plain black bezel insert, it is no longer 1 of today's IT watches. So I think most who see it in the wild assume it must be gen because those original ceramic GMTs are now several years old & no longer a fixation of youtubers, flippers & grey marketeers. After the bezel insert has been properly installed, I will post some wristies of the finished watch.

Nice watch, but I love that case! What is the story behind this? Wearing the Big Kahuna (at right) today --

Pics?

As long as you are using a V72 or clone, aside from ebay, there are a number of parts sellers (eg, MQ) that specialize in these parts. I would recommend sitting down & having your blood pressure medicine nearby when reviewing pricing.

Trusty is a reliable seller, but I would recommend selecting 1 specific DJ model (steel, 2-tone, size, dial color/design, etc.) BEFORE you buy anything. There are many options out there & they are even more confusing if you do not have a good understanding of what the real thing looks, feels & functions like. Once you are familiar with the gen, it will be alot easier to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. In other words, all reps contain inaccuracies relative to gens, that is part of the reason gens cost so much more than reps. Once you have the target selected, spend time researching THAT particular gen model by visiting an authorized dealer (AD) or 2 & handling/operating that particular model (or the closest DJ model to the 1 you want that they have on display), so you know how they look, feel & function in person. Then spend some time googling pics of the gen from all angles, including the interior/movement, to familiarize yourself & get accustomed to the appearance of the gen. This will make it easier to weed out those reps whose inaccuracies bother you the most, so you can participate in fine tuning your selection. Once you have educated yourself, you will be better able to ask relevant questions (that is what RWG is good for) & understand the answers. Asking questions like 'Which Sub is best?' is not likely to return many responses or result in meaningful answers if you do not know how gens differ from reps. You will save yourself alot of heartache by researching the real thing BEFORE searching the spider web of reps. As you have found, there are multiple options/features/style/quality. In this case, price does NOT necessarily mean 'best'. You may be paying for extra features within the movement that you will never see & that may not be worth it to pay extra for. On the other hand, you may want to consider a version that contains more 1:1 'clone' parts, which is important if you later decide to improve your rep by swapping things like the dial, handset, crown or some movement parts for either better performance or to make your rep look closer to the gen (real thing).

Exactly. This comment should be pinned in the Introduction forum and required reading for ALL new members & those asking 'What is the best --?'.

I do not have alot of experience with Explorers, but all reps contain inaccuracies. The inaccuracies of 1 factory that bother me may not be visible to you & vice versa. RWG used to have a "Best Sub" link in the Introductions forum that explained why asking these types of questions are not helpful to the buyer & not appreciated by the forum members, but that link appears to be broken. You should educate yourself about the gen model you are interested in & visit an AD or 2 to try the watch on & see how it feels & how the real thing operates. Then spend some time perusing gens on the gen forums. Download lots of pics & study them like an educational course you really want a good grade in. Once you have a good idea of what the gen Explorer looks like, you can then decide for yourself which of the factories turn out the best Explorer for you. Good luck.

I should have parts within the next 2 weeks & will post pics of the completed watch shortly after that.

Bump for new members or anyone interested in seeing what is possible when a group of really smart, inventive RWG watch geeks put their collective heads together & are unaware that something cannot be done.

Update -- After exhausting all the usual sources for accurate 116710LN cases, I turned to Andrew (trustytime) & took his advice (which I have always found to be reliable) & purchased 1 of his superclone 116710LNs to use as a case donor. Anyone following a similar upgrade path should be aware that the 116710 has had 2 movements -- 3186 & 3285 -- the 3186 was discontinued in 2018 & replaced by the 3285 (main improvement is an increased, 72 hour power reserve versus the previous movement's 48 hour reserve). Therefore, all of the LNs should have been fitted with the 3186 & all recent GMTII models will be powered by the 3285. Unfortunately, my Rolex parts book predates either movement, so I cannot say with certainty what, if any, parts these 2 movements share, but I doubt there are many because the 2 movements look very different. Although the use of a complete clone watch is a very inefficient use of capital for a franken project, it is alot less costly than sourcing a gen case, which are nearly as rare as gen 14k Newman Daytonas. Most of the upgrades & overall process is similar to what I previously detailed in my Big Kahuna Daytona clone project, with the exception of the additional requirement of a clone case since the Big Kahuna was based on a clone (which came with an accurate 'clone' case) & this project is based on an old rep (which came with a good, but not 100% accurate case). Because everything that you can see, feel & operate on the final watch will be gen, it makes no sense to house it all within a 'good, but not 100% accurate case'. What began life as a correct hand stack (CHS) ETA-powered rep purchased many years ago is morphing into a super-clone. Years ago, I upgraded the watch with -- - gen xtal - gen crown/tube Recently, I swapped the ETA for an Asian 3186 clone (my experience with 4 clones has been consistent -- all met or exceeded Rolex/COSC timing specs out of the box & have maintained those specs) Currently, awaiting these incoming parts -- - Andrew's 116710LN clone (case donor) - gen dial - gen handset - gen auto-wind components (eg reverser wheels) - gen signed bridges - gen rotor - gen balance/bridge - various gen & Swiss-made screws to replace poor quality/damaged clone screws &, to do the final project the justice it will deserve, I will be replacing the solid steel caseback with a German-made display caseback, which is superior -- appears to be similar quality, but offers a slightly larger display area -- to both the Big Kahuna's ebay-sourced display caseback & Rolex's own 116506 display caseback.

Anyone know of a source for an accurate CASE (or rep with accurate CASE) to fit a gen 3186 spec movement? Need properly aligned rehaut engraving -- so ROLEXROLEXROLEX letters align with minute marks on gen dial. Thanks in advance.

Back to the Big Kahuna today --

It has been a while since I worked on that movement, but I believe the assembly order is barrel, stop lever, barrel bridge, click/click spring, crown wheel & ratchet wheel. I hope that helps.

GMT on RubberB

All that ticking must keep you awake at night.

Big Kahuna this weekend

Local jeweler.

Most obvious tells (to me) - case looks new (I would give it some patina) & dial looks new/aftermarket. Depending on the price being charged, I would either figure in the cost of a better (ie, more realistic for its age) dial or, if your goal is accuracy over cost, look for a better watch.

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