freddy333

You will need to measure your insert, but these should do.

Interesting ideas, Logan. But considering how much damage I did to my scrap parts with an engraving bit and a nail, I can only imagine what a mess I would make with acid or a sand blaster. Also, I do not see how you could restrict the action of either acid or sand to affect only the inner grooves of the lettering without damaging the adjacent areas. But very clever ideas just the same.

Avitt -- I mostly agree with you. I actually fit one of the Watchmeister DWs to the 2846 that originally came in the watch, but, shortly after that, the movement died and I swapped it out for another 2846 and installed the OEM MBW (metal) DW on the replacement movement. It was not that noticeable through a crystal without a magnifying lens (cyclops), but the slight dot-matrixy appearance of the Watchmeister fonts along with my inability to center most of the dates (an off-center date is one of those all-too-typical rep 'features' that really bugs me) has left me ambivalent about swapping the datewheels again. I do like the way the Watchmeister looks though, so I will take another look at it when I take the watch apart to do the next set of mods, maybe this weekend if the rest of my drill press vice parts arrive in time.

I think I prefer the 22nd, but here is my 23 on the OEM WM/MBW (I still cannot make my mind up whether I like the Ubi/WM DW's bolder sanserif font or the OEM WM/MBW's serifs, which I was able to center perfectly)

I do not know if either is original. But, of the two, the second looks better (there is more uneven spacing between the lettering on the first one). The crown looks a little wobbly, but I think that is the photo. If not, then I would disregard it.

You may be right. But I am sure there is a way to replicate the original stamped appearance.

Yesterday, a friend recommended one of the craziest ideas I have ever heard, but after thinking about it overnight I am beginning to wonder if it makes sense. Here is the idea -- If you think of the groove of each letter in a caseback like a groove in a vinyl record and then picture the v-shaped stylus running along the groove. What happens when you run the stylus back and forth over the same section of the groove? It widens, softens, deepens and becomes less etched. So, my friend suggested, why not take a larger stylus (a small 'finish' nail) and just run it back and forth along each letter. Then, of course, follow with a polish (possibly with one of those rubber Dremel bits). Is this insanity or genius? Thoughts? Update -- I just tried the nail procedure on a scrap caseback and it could work, but only in the steady and talented hands of an artist like Ziggy. the nail does widen, round and smooth the lettering, but I was unable to keep the nail inside the groove of the letter (which is the same problem I had with the diamond engraving bits on the Dremel). This illustrates one of the other problems with modern engraving -- it creates a much shallower groove than the original vintage stamping.

Pete -- I see your point, but I think you may not be seeing the same difference I see when I compare your sanded/polished caseback to the gen in the photo I posted. To my eye, the lettering on the gen looks alot more like the lettering on Avitt's caseback, which is wider, deeper, smoother, rounder than the lettering on either mine or yours. Yes, you did a great job of wearing down the lettering, but the remaining lettering still looks too modern. And that is the problem.

PP -- A nice polish would look great on a modern watch, but I think it is out of place on a vintage watch.

Hmmmm...........very interesting. My Dremel came with a similar looking felt-tipped bit, but the tip was larger than the lettering and it just polished the surface. I do not know if rubber will do any better or be able to actually widen the lettering, but since these bits look alot more narrow, they might be able to actually reach down into the letter and smooth out the bottoms a bit. It might be worth a try. I also have one of these stainless steel polishers (I use them to smooth off the drill marks when doing lug holes), but they just roughly polish the surface (I have to go over the area with green rouge afterwards to remove the brushed finish the bits leave).

Avitt -- The more I look at the lettering on your caseback, it is pretty clear that the stroke width (the thickness of the lines that make up each letter) is wider than mine. Looking at the double-quote marks (to the right of the 'R' in the word OYSTER), I can see that the lines are exactly the same length and in the same location as mine, but yours are deeper, wider and a bit rounder. Since we have the same DRSD caseback, I have to assume that the previous owner widened the lettering with some type of tool and was able to trace each letter exactly. Based on my very amateurish results with a diamond engraving bit on my Dremel, I have to assume that they either used something that allows much greater control over movement or it was done by a professional engraver.

I have to agree with Avitt. Pete, your caseback looks exactly like the first one I modded some time back. The idea was to remove some of the surface details and make it look worn and aged. So I sanded and polished the original lettering (as I think you have done), which did help a bit, but it still looked like a modern (laser) etching that has been sanded/polished. A small improvement, but the lines that make up each letter are too narrow and the corners are too well defined. A move in the right direction, but no where near the same quality of Avitt's or some of the other members' casebacks I have seen posted here. Still, even the best of them are not able to replicate the sunkin (stamped) lettering of a gen. At this point, I think this will have to be handled in two parts. The first will be to find the tool/procedure to soften, widen & deepen the lettering and to smooth out the bottom of each letter (laser etching leaves a rough, whitish texture in the base of each letter, while gen lettering is nice and smooth (or slightly rough - due to wear). The second will be to find a way to replicate the slightly sunkin appearance around most of the letters.

Yes, I just noticed that, too.

Ziggy definitely does top shelf work. Enjoy your 'new' watch.

Yes, that is what I thought. Are there any aftermarket hands that fit the ETA 2846 which more closely match the gen hands?

Thanks Avitt. Actually, I was able to crack the solder joint on one (which is what I was trying to do), but the other one kind of bent before the joint separated. The effect was the same -- it widened the hole enough to slide the 2mm springbar through. You can slightly see where the outer 'skin' of that one link warped when the light hits the link the right way. I will have to figure out some way to flatten it back down. And you are right about the springbar holes. The width of that side of these end links are way off (too narrow) anyway, but when I saw that magic number (550) on a pair of old end links that came with one of my old rep Subs, I just could not avoid trying to fit them. Even with their warts, it sure is nice to know I have the right number lurking under there. I am hoping it will not be too long before I can locate a proper gen pair. The downside to the bracelet upgrade is that it makes that laser etched MBW caseback all the more obvious. I have a lead on another local jeweler who is willing to at least take a look to see if there is anything he can do.

It is very expensive, but the Italian book 'Rolex Daytona From Birth to the Myth' is one of the best sources I have seen for technical data on the Daytona models (up until the current 1165xx models). I got mine on ebay.

ebay There has also been an additional update since the previous post Unfortunately, not gen links (apparent from the way they 'fit'), but they should hold me until I can locate gens. PM me if you need more info.

The bracelet should fit (the 6263 requires a 19mm width bracelet) and its part number (78350) is correct for this model. But I do not think the 557 end link numbers are right - that may or may not matter to you.

While awaiting the remaining parts and tools for the next set of DRSD mods (He valve, superdome), I am beginning to notice some of the smaller details that separate my MBW from a gen. One of those details are the MBW hands, which I think have narrower lume sections inside them compared to the gen DRSD hands. So I am wondering if there are options for upgrading the hands on the ETA 2846? Am I correct that the gen hands (made to fit the 1570 movement) will not fit onto the pinion of the 2846? If that is right, are there any aftermarket hands that do fit the ETA and more closely match the gen hands? And for anyone considering whether to upgrade their rep clasp, I would highly recommend it. I just received a nicely aged 93150 clasp and fit it onto an aftermarket 93150 bracelet and diver's extension. The part bolted right onto the rep bracelet and improved the bracelet's feel and appearance. Once I locate the correct 580 or 585 end links, I will consider the bracelet complete.

I think the 1680 MBW says 'Polex' (instead of Rolex) on the side of the case underneath the end link (after you remove the bracelet).

Beautiful watch. I am jealous.

You are exactly right and that is exactly what is wrong about the MBW casebacks (they are etched using lasers, which were not available 30 years ago). But I have seen enough fairly accurate rep casebacks (including yours) that look much more like the vintage gens than mine does. And, while it does make a difference, I do not think these nicer casebacks got that way as a result of sanding & polishing alone. There must have been some other tool or process involved.

I have sanded a couple of casebacks and while it does soften the face of each letter a bit, it has no effect on the width, depth or inside texture. Sanding also does not create that sunkin appearance of the original stamped impression. Before I began on this quest, I tried to locate a jeweler who could replicate one of the gen casebacks. Either they did not have the proper equipment or they refused to work on the part because they did not want to work on a rep.

Because the lettering on your caseback does not appear to have that sunkin appearance, I think it is probably a rep (that was re-engraved by someone with the 'right' tool (whatever that is) and some experience). But I could be wrong. Maybe the new Dremel engraving tool (which I have not opened yet) can produce better results than I got with the standard Dremel driving a diamond engraving tip. But if it does, I would sure like to know how.