freddy333

Ubi -- This is one of those cases where version matters. The 116520 that I have, which I got from a UK auction site a little over 2.5 years ago, has the same narrower case profile and shallow rehaut as your frankenstein 16520. My 116520 also came with more accurate crown guards (narrower & cover less of the crown), but, on the downside, it also has a slightly less accurate DAYTONA font (the color of the font is wrong in the photo because I did not white balance the camera before shooting the pic). From your photos, it looks like you have the 116520 version that Joshua sells (which I referred to in one of my previous reviews). I always knew that my case was slightly thicker than the gen 116520 case (but just by a millimeter or two). But now that I see how thick your case really is, I would definitely recommend buyers to suffer the less than perfect DAYTONA font and go with the version I have (I do not remember which one, but I have seen it listed in one of our watch collectors' collections). As an option, you could buy both versions and swap the movements, so that you end up with Joshua's dial (with the more accurate DAYTONA font) in my case. With that combination, I think it would be very difficult to tell the rep watch from the gen without a very close inspection. I am seriously considering that myself. I need to add that these photos were taken before I replaced the crown and crown tube with gen parts. But both crowns look about the same from these angles.

Mojo -- Your points are taken, but I have to agree with Avitt on this one. In fact, I go even further -- I drill lug holes entirely by hand. Hold the case in one hand and the drill in the other. Slow, steady and lots of oil. I have done about a dozen cases so far and have not lost a single drill bit or case. With lug holes it is really easy since you are just enlarging an existing hole and the bit follows the path of least resistance (the existing hole). For this project, I am drilling out a new He valve, which is a bit of a noodle since I am drilling into virgin metal. And that is why I need to find a drill press or something similar to hold everything steady and press the drill in the right direction. If you are interested, you can find the basic outline of my DRSD MBW He Valve Project about a 3rd of the way down the page.

Mojo -- I appreciate the input on that tool. That is kind of what I thought when I looked at the box in the store. But I never took it out of the box, so I was not sure if it would work or not. It is only lack of space that keeps me from picking up a small standard drill press. I found one that is just over a foot in height, which would work fine, But it weighs 75 lbs, which is a bit too unwieldy to be lugging around for such a limited project. Maybe I can rent one.

Avitt -- Yes, that is exactly it. Do you have one of them or did you locate the photo online? And if you have one, do you think it will hold a hand drill stable enough to drill holes through the side of a case (this is for the He valve mod)?

The watch will be mounted in a rubber jawed hobby vice (sitting on the floor) and the drill will be mounted into the frame which is what this tool is (it is a frame that holds a hand drill and allows it to run, up and down, on a track that keeps it straight. That is the theory at least. If it works as advertised, it should do the job just fine. But since I have never used one before and I have learned many times that the promise of a tool often does not live up to the pitch, I thought it best to see if anyone else had used one of these tools before I risk damaging an MBW case.

Has anyone ever used one of those tools you attach a hand drill to that allow it to work like a drill press? I need to drill some holes through the side of a stainless steel case and I do not have access to or room for a standard drill press. I saw one of these things in a store, but the picture on the box showed it being used to drill holes in wood. So I am wondering if anyone knows if it would be able to hold a hand drill steady enough to drill a straight hole through a watch case?

You might try these Review: Daytona 116509 & Dealer Bottom of 1st page Comparing Triplock crowns (used on recent Daytonas)

$35 is a very good price, if it is gen. Best if you can post a clear close-up photo of the dial as well as shots of the side of the case showing the numbers between the lugs (you will need to remove the bracelet for this). If it is a vintage MBW and the insert is gen, it should fit. Otherwise, it can probably be made (with some modding) to fit most standard rep cases.

Kingkitesurf -- Did you use a dremel 'engraving bit' to smooth the caseback engraving?

You are right. There is alot of variation in the gen DRSD dials. doubleredseadweller.com has a dial section that shows some of differences. I always compare the rectangular hour marker at 9 with the round markers above and below it (at 8 & 10) to be sure the 9 marker is the right length. I think the problem is that the round markers are smaller on the rep dials and so they had to shorten the rectangular markers to maintain the proper perspective. If they made the 6 & 9 markers the correct size (to match those on the gen dials), they would stick out too far (in either direction) beyond the smaller round 8 & 10 markers above and below it. I guess the factory chose to shorten the 2 rectangular markers instead of just making the round markers the correct size to begin with. Like I keep saying, there is always something obvious the rep factories miss (or purposely get wrong) that leaves me scratching my head.

Hi Avitt -- Yes, I saw the same Timezone thread and it looks like the same dial or at least from the same source. I do not think that all of the tritium dials had that canvas texture. At least not from what I see in some of the other Timezone posts and Rolex books. The one thing that does seem to be common with all the tritium markers is their grainy appearance, which is lacking on the OEM WM/MBW dial. This is one of the things that aftermarket dial got about right. I noticed the slight difference between our MBW dials too. Since your MBW dial is older than mine, I think that is the reason for the variation. It looks like the variations are just variations and not improvements. Different factories maybe?

Yes, I was just going to inquire as to the source of a $250 (working) V72. But if there is one, please PM me asap. Seriously.

Hard to see the pearl, but the rest of the insert looks good to me.

There is apparently some confusion regarding the differences between the OEM WM/MBW DRSD dial and a generally well done aftermarket dial that Polexpete used in his watch (I purchased one of these dials as well). So, to try to clear up some of the confusion, I am posting side-by-side photos of both dials so everyone can see the differences between them. Unfortunately, the comparison is not 100% fair because I did not have a second WM/MBW case & movement to fit the aftermarket dial onto. So I placed one of the vintage datewheels that was recently produced by RWG members under it and a gen T39 crystal over it. In this way, the two dials can be seen under similar conditions. There is some difference in the way light is refracted through each crystal, but when viewed from straight-on, the differences are minimal. The dial on the left is the OEM WM/MBW dial with OEM datewheel and crystal. The dial on the right is the aftermarket dial with the recently modded datewheel and gen T39 crystal. Some of the most noticeable differences are * the width of the index markers at 6 & 9 * the color of the lume (you cannot see it in the photos, but the lume in the aftermarket dial looks very much like tritium in both color (slightly whiter around the edges) and its 3-d shape * the printing on the aftermarket dial is crisper, but somewhat uneven (note, as one example, the spacing between the H and R in CHRONOMETER (on the other hand, there is too much spacing between the letters in SEA-DWELLER & SUBMARINER on the WM/MBW dial)) * the coronet in the aftermarket dial is narrower at the bottom (which is incorrect), but also crisper and more detailed at the top (which is more accurate) * the font in ROLEX is more correct on the aftermarket dial (note, for instance, that the sides of the O are wider than the top and bottom, which is correct) There are other differences to be sure. But, all in all, and as good as the aftermarket dial is in many ways, I think the OEM WM/MBW dial comes closer to matching the gen DRSD dial. For comparison, here is a gen version IV DRSD dial Opinions?

Just before reassembly, I always clean the inside of the case and crystal with Windex (glass cleaner) and a Viva paper towel (this brand will not scratch the plastic). Then I use a can of compressed air (available at office supply and computer stores) to blow any remaining moisture, dust and debris out. Just be sure not to touch anything on the inside of the case as you reassemble.

I do this with every new watch -- manually wind it, slowly, 40-50 turns and then set it on my desk and let it run for about 2 days. If it stops running towards the end of the 2nd day, then I repeat the test. If it stops, again, near the end of the 2nd day, then it is probably fine. But if it stops much before the 2nd day, back it goes to the dealer. Most of the dealers here will repair and return it good as new (if not new).

If you do not see the release button, can you post a clear photo of the rear side of the movement near the stem? Maybe someone will be able to spot it for you.

That is too bad because your original work (aside from the scratches) looked pretty good. You probably could have touched-up the scratches with a black magic marker. It is such a small spot that if done carefully, I doubt you could even see the color difference with a low power loupe. But I guess that is water under the bridge since your watch is gorgeous now.

If you are talking about the pre-16520 Daytonas, I can tell you that the versions with the Asian 7750 movements have fully functional chronograph movements (tri-compax), but they are also self-winding (automatic), which is inaccurate for the vintage Daytonas as these were manual wind. You can always remove the winding rotor to make a sort of pseudo manual movement (at least you will not hear the rotor winding when you move the watch). But if you do that, you would almost have to also replace the rep crown and crown tube with gen parts, since the daily winding would quickly strip the threads and you would have to replace them anyway. The versions with the 'Lemania'/Venus movements are bi-compax. That is they have only 2 working chronograph subdials -- at 3 & 9 (they have a dummy subdial at 6 (the hand in this subdial just replicates the movement of the watch's hour hand, but this can be 'frozen' by removing a gear and (permanently) fixing the hand at 12 to simulate the correct 'off' position of the subdial on the gen Daytona), but these are manual (hand-wind) movements, which is correct for the early Daytona. Check the Collectors' section as some of the collectors here display both versions. Which is better for you? You tell me.

Very interesting progression, Avitt. I see why Sherrington removed the lume on the last dial. The color looks off (too yellowish). I am also giving second thought to the original WM/MBW datewheel as it has those quite genuine looking slightly serifed fonts.

I am not sure what defines a 'super rep', but there have always been varying levels of quality in the rep world. And I am going back more than 20 years. I remember when just a small handful of mail order rep dealers (this was long before the internet) began for the first time to offer the 'ultra exclusive' (ultra expensive for the time) new ETA based Rolex reps that had real gold plated bezels. But I have only ever bought watches that I think (at least, at the time) are visually accurate enough to pass as gens and which fit my style. Fortunately, while my watch knowledge and style have improved over the years (with maturity comes wisdom), so have the reps. But while I am amazed at how accurate some modern reps have become (while not perfect, some of the current 116520 Daytona reps look and function so similar to the genuine articles that owners of the gens must now ask themselves if their money was well spent), I am also constantly maddened at how often the rep makers fail to get some of the more obvious (and easy to achieve) details right (the cheesy 3, 6 & 9 hour markers on some of the current 116509 Daytona reps spoil an otherwise perfect reproduction dial).

I do not think there is any way to verify the state of the pinion without at least removing the hands and dial, which the dealer may balk at. And, even then, you may still need to at least partially disassemble the movement to locate the source of the problem. I would try pulling out the stem and moving the hands around the dial for several revolutions -- in both directions. Do this a couple of times. I had a movement once which had a gear that would intermittently (every few months) pop out of place and it resulted in symptoms similar to what you described. This got it working again. If it still appears to be 'stopped', I think you will have to return it to the dealer. Ziggy may have another suggestion, but that is what I would do.

In another post, Ubi posted a photo showing a gen Triplock crown next to a rep. The main problem, as and you can see from the comparison photos, is that the shaft that runs through the center of the rep crown (what the stem screws into) is narrower than the shaft in the gen crown. And the hole in the rep crown tube is made to fit the narrower shaft of the rep crown and the wider shaft in the gen will not go through the rep crown tube. So if you want to upgrade the crown to a gen, you will need to replace the crown tube also.

Ziggy's procedure is the most likely to work, but olivia's suggestion of trying to loosen it with penetrating oil is worth a try before you break out the drill. One other option, if there is enough of the head left you might try tapping on it from the side of the head with a small chisel. If you place the edge of the chisel at the right angle, it will bite into the edge of the screw head and you might be able to tap it in the direction to loosen and remove it.

I do not know what you mean by a jeweling tool, but you do not need a staking tool for basic repairs. Most watch parts supply houses (ofrei.com, julesborel.com) have watch repair kits. If you are going to take a watch repair class, the class can tell you what you need. If you plan to learn on your own, I cannot guide you there. You will have to buy what you need as you need it. All anyone here can tell you is to get quality tools and learn to use them correctly. Good luck and have fun.