freddy333

Avitt -- Yes (almost) exactly. I say almost because I would prefer a black dial, but I would easily suffer with that white one. Do you know if those are still available?

Beautiful watch and nice work. I would like to find a non-Oyster (non-screw pushers) myself.

I am not sure about the symmetry of the pushers -- they look asymmetrical in one photo, but symmetrical in the others. Impossible to tell from his photos. The subdials also look a bit small and too far apart, but that may be the photos.

TheWightStuff -- If you locate that technical sheet, could you post a copy? I would love to see it. I think you are right about the rep bracelets being inaccurate. I kind of thought it should have the extension, but wanted to be sure. I want to try to engrave the lettering on the caseback of my DRSD. I think I remember you said you used an engraving tool to do yours. Do you mean an engraving bit for a dremel or did you use a separate engraving tool? I was in Sears yesterday and they have both, but I wondering what you used?

El -- This is one of the very few cases where the crystal on a rep is actually taller than the gen. If you reshape the CGs & replace the hands/crown/tube/bracelet buckle with gens, it would be very difficult to tell the difference. As it is, I am sure it would fool any 'civilian'.

Hi Nanuq -- Makes sense and thank you.

Avitt -- Just what the doctor ordered. The reference page shows any of 3 end pieces -- 285/580/585, and it also looks like both bracelets were fitted to the 1665. So my remaining question is (and repaustria probably already answered this, but I would not mind a second opinion) did the DRSD bracelet have the diver's extension?

Repaustria -- Thank you for the quick reply. Can I also ask what the difference is between the 9315 & 93150 bracelets? I have a box full of rep bracelets and they are all labeled 93150, but some have diver's extensions and some do not. I am wondering which would be correct for the DRSD? I also have a couple of end pieces labeled 501B, but I have a feeling that is wrong for this model. I have seen these with 280, 380, 580 or 585 end pieces. The Patent Pending page of doubleredseadweller shows 380s, but I have seen all of the others fitted to DRSDs on Timezone. Could all of these end pieces be correct (fitted either originally or during servicing)?

And did the bracelet on these vintage Sea-Dwellers have the diver's extension?

Thank you and I look forward to seeing how successful you are in recreating that sunkin appearance of the lettering. You do good work. Here is another photo that may better illustrate the sunkin appearance of the lettering on a gen DRSD caseback As you can see by the way light is reflected around each letter, the surface of the case appears slightly 'pressed in', which I now understand is caused by the stamping process (at the factory, the stamping was probably accomplished with the use of a heavy press machine). The area around the lettering on our rep cases, even when properly sanded and polished, is still noticeably flat in relation to the same area on the gen caseback. But I think that once we can find a way to replicate both the stamped (pressed in) appearance as well as the more rounded, worn look of the lettering on the gen case, we will have a winner. Edit -- More and more, I am thinking that TheWightStuff had the right idea to use an engraving tool to widen and round each of the original engravings as a first step. Using his procedure prior to whatever tool or procedure we can devise to replicate the sunkin texture, followed by Pete's sanding/polishing should result in a near perfect vintage caseback.

PP -- I appreciate the input, and your work looks very good, but still obviously done with modern engraving equipment. The main question I am trying to solve is how to recreate the sunkin appearance of the lettering on the gen caseback, which was originally stamped (not engraved)? I can sand & polish out the sharp edges of the engraving, but no amount of sanding and polishing will duplicate the sunkin appearance of the lettering on the gen caseback. And that is the part I am trying to figure out.

Good point. Once I receive the stamp, I will toy around with a vice to see if there is a way to press it into the caseback with that. The factory seemed pretty certain that there would not be a problem with a hammer, but I am going to do some pre-testing on scrap cases and hopefully I will be able to work out a successful scheme. The stamp numbers I ordered are 1/4" in size. From the sound of it, the tool will resemble a narrow nail tap, but with the numbers in place of the point at the business end of the tap. But I will have a better idea once I receive the tool in a few weeks. I never built an amp from scratch, but I used to do a bit of rebuilding & modding of old valve (tube) stuff. I guess some of us have modding in our blood.

I have never seen a model like that and everything about the posting screams scam. Not the greatest quality, but you can find some repainted Tudors here.

Euno -- hahaha Just my luck - the only reasonably priced Daytona with asymetrical pushers and the guy is a crook. But if it comes to fisticuffs when you find him and any of these 6263s happen to fall out of his pockets, please grab one for me (since he will probably not be in any condition to need it after you finish with him). Oh, and watch your brisket.

Tonyp1 -- Yes, I thought your watch looked familiar. I have been trying to buy one of these 6263s with asymmetrical pushers from Honpo for weeks. But after answering my initial email asking if he had an English language page (he responded "No, but which watch are you interested in?") he stopped replying altogether. Right after that, I someone said he does not ship to the US and then I started seeing posts like Slays (and others) complaining that orders never arrived, so I pretty much gave up. Still, if he is actually shipping vintage Daytonas (even with 7750s) that have the correct asymmetrical pusher arrangement, I would buy one (or more) if he'd deal with me.

Avitt and fx -- Good points all. I will definitely place something form-fitting below the caseback and I will experiment a bit on a scrap part before starting on this one. But, for what it is worth, while I certainly do not want to deform the caseback, I am not really very concerned with the appearance of the text on the inside. I have never quite understood the reason why so many rep owners (at least those who are not building franken watches containing gen Rolex movements) are concerned with the visual accuracy inside the case. After all, no matter how good the lettering on the inside of the caseback is, anyone knowledgeable enough to look inside will know, in an instant, that the watch is a rep. And I will happily screw up the lettering on the inside of the caseback if that will result in an improvement in the lettering on the outside. Does that make sense?

tonyp1 -- Does this look like the source of your watch

Brook - There is a reason for the difference between them -- Ubi's Daytonas are based on the previous model (16520 with secs at 9), while rag9fx's are the current model (116520 with secs at 6). The current Daytonas have the wider index markers.

You may very well be right, but I will have a better handle on the stamping possibilities in a few weeks. I just ordered a custom metal stamp designed for use on stainless steel to imprint a serial number on my Comex rep caseback (there is a separate thread about this). I sent the stamp factory photos of the font I want as well as a picture of a gen caseback showing what I am trying to achieve. They said the stamp would produce that type of indented mark with a few knocks from a standard hammer (with the caseback sitting on a wood block). I will be amazed if it turns out to be that easy, but I will know soon enough. Unfortunately, they are unable to replicate a stamp for the entire DRSD caseback with any guarantee of font size/style accuracy. But if the basic process proves successful by hammering a metal stamp into a caseback, I think it will just be a matter of locating the remaining stamps and perfecting the process. In the meantime, I appreciate all of the input so far (very helpful) and welcome any others.

tonyp1 -- I would love to know the source for that watch. Do you have a link or contact info?

Avitt -- As usual, a well thought out answer and one that I have considered as well. But, unfortunately, that option does not address the main issue -- how to replicate the sunkin effect of the characters on the gen casebacks? Somehow, the characters would still need to be hammered or pressed in, and that is the part that I am having trouble with. After that, engraving as you described, followed by a good sanding (the sanding would accelerate a few decades worth of polishing), polishing and antiquing should produce an acceptable result. But the question remains how to create the sunkin effect?

Just wondering if the new (or relaunched) version will have the proper lug holes in the case (sorry if this has been addressed, but there are 12 pages in this thread)?

The Mission: To make the WM/MBW DRSD caseback look like the gen caseback. The Background: Many of us have been struggling with ways to mod the caseback of the WM/MBW DRSD to more closely replicate the vintage appearance and feel of a 30 to 40 year old gen DRSD caseback. As most of us know, the caseback that comes fitted onto the current crop of WM/MBW DRSDs was engraved with equipment that did not exist at the time the gen watches were originally manufactured. The lettering, which was engraved onto the caseback of the WM/MBW, is sharp, flat and quite detailed. Meanwhile, the lettering on the gen caseback (in its original form) was relatively more rounded, deep (looking as if it was pressed into the caseback (an important point, which I will go into in a bit more detail below) and dull in comparison. And because of this, the WM/MBW caseback, even with the paint removed (an absolute requirement for the modder or owner seeking any pretense towards authenticity), remains a weak point. So, for many weeks now, I have been considering ways to re-engrave the text to make it appear more like the gen. To this end, I have taken the caseback to 4 jewelers in an effort to see if they could offer an improvement. While all said they could round out the lettering, none were able to replicate it exactly or to recreate the sunkin effect of the gen lettering. I have also seen some very good engraving work done by a couple of the better modders here. But, still, none of these got the pressed-in appearance of the lettering either. So I was in a quandry -- why did all of the gen casebacks have this sunkin appearance? Recently, while browsing a local estate sale shop that had a watchmaker on the premises, I got the answer I had been looking for. It turns out that the text on the gen casebacks was stamped into the steel, not engraved as I had always thought. And because the stamper was applied with force, it slightly dented the area around each character producing that telltale sunkin appearance that only a true vintage caseback has. (The timing of this news could not have been better, because I was about to have a Comex caseback engraved with a serial number. With this piece of the puzzle solved, I immediately canceled that plan and set about ordering a custom metal stamper.) Since it is unlikely (not to mention prohibitively expensive) that a custom metal stamper could be made to exactly replicate the content & layout of characters on the WM/MBW DRSD caseback, another alternative must be found to achieve a similar stamped result. My initial thought was to use a small flathead screwdriver and hammer to carefully and slowly hammer out each of the characters to deepen and round them out. In theory, at least, it could work, but it would also be alot of work and the likelihood of ending up with a caseback that looks like it was hammered with a small flathead screwdriver seems high to me. The Big Question: Can anyone suggest other options?

Kruzer -- For whatever it is worth, I think your watch looks amazing. But I have to agree with TWS on the dial. Whether it is gen or not, it looks somehow odd and out of place in that otherwise fine watch. I think what bothers me about it is that it looks repainted, very similar to my own attempts at dial refinishing. The visible 'handwork' draws my eye directly to it and that immediately makes me question a watch's authenticity (which is why I have been unable to use any of my own repaints). But I think it is clear that there is a wide variance in opinions on what passes as an acceptable level of quality for dials.

I certainly agree with you about this one, but some of the better 116520s are among the most accurate Rolex reps I have seen to date. They look pretty respectable to me.