freddy333

I hate to even ask this because I'm sure this'll be another of those newbie questions that've been answered to death (but I've been unable to find the answer). How do you go about removing the 3 hands on the cannon pinion? I've got a Presto hand remover (from Birdman), but I can't figure out how to use it to remove the two top hands? Specifically, I know you need to remove the seconds hand first, but since it's at the top of the pinion, there's nothing for the hand puller's pads to sit on and use for leverage (I presume the pads rest on the dial (which I've protected with a small sheet of thick paper) and then you squeeze the springs on the side of the hand remover to press the hand off the pinion??? If I've got that right, what do you rest the hand remover's pads on when removing the second hand? I have a feeling the answer's gonna be embarrassing, but for the life of me I can't figure this out.

By-Tor, Many thanks for the link. It's difficult for a relative newbie here to know everything that may've been corrected/answered previously. In any case, I referred to the movement by the name the dealer used who sold me the watch. My apologies for the mistake.

leitz: As I mentioned in the previous post, I don't know what an "EE" is (if that's one of the dealers here, then I'm pretty sure this rep isn't one of them because I got this Newman Daytona 1-2 years ago on a UK auction site)? Since the watch I'm working on DOES have the black bezel, I should probably ask what type of problems did you run into fitting the crystal to your watch? Did you need to remove the bezel and, if so, what did you use (case knife, bezel remover, etc.)?

Randy, Many thanks for the info. Re 1: Actually, the reason I posted the question here is because I was confused by all the options offered by Ofrei (I need the non-screw "pump" pushers). I don't really have the proper tool (caliper?) to measure the exact dimensions of the pushers I removed from the case. I just set the pusher on a ruler and eyeballed each of the dimensions. It looks like the diameter of the portion of the pusher that fits into the hole in the case is more like 2.2mm or 2.3mm (Ofrei does offer one 2.2mm pusher). And I guess I could order one of each of the 10 options they offer to see which fits (and looks) best, but, at $12/each, that's not my favourite option. I'm hoping someone has done this before so I don't have to reinvent the same wheel. Also, what is recommended for fitting press-fit pushers into the case? Ofrei lists a Bergeon 6161 (plyers for fitting pushers) for $89 and a Horotec Pushers-Press for $79.50, which says it will also install crown tubes. Is there a less expensive alternative? Though, since I've got a couple of crown tube installations in my upcoming schedule, the Horotec (presuming it works as advertised) may not be a bad idea... Re 2: Thanks, I'll search the archives for ajoesmith's solutions. Re 3: Unless I'm misunderstanding you, the only thing that appears to connect the end piece to the springbar are those two little hoops that appear to be welded to the inside of the end piece. If I cut or remove them, there won't be anything (in the end piece) to slide the springbar through: Re 4: I don't mean to sound (too) ignorant, but I'm not familar with an "EE" and I'm pretty sure the rep I've got isn't a DW (I think I read in one of your posts that the DW's have 19mm lug widths and this one's 20mm), so does that mean I won't be able to fit ANY (generic) Tropic crystals or is it just the T21 that won't fit? If NONE of the Tropics (including the generic Tropics that Ofrei sells fit (I've got four of their generic T19s that I was hoping to use for this Newman and the DRSD I got from Andrew), is there another crystal I can use? And I guess I should ask how I can measure the current crystals so I don't make the same mistake again? Re 5: Definitely no steady hands here...so I'll definitely need all the luck I can get....

Is "tw" Andrew? If so, then it must be a case-specific problem because the lug holes on the DRSD I recently received from him (which is next to be modded after I finish the Newman Daytona) are in the same locations as the vintage 5514 Comex I referred to in my initial response to you.

A few questions re the Lemania-based Paul Newman: 1. Is there a good source for gen button (as opposed to screw-type) pushers for Lemania-based Paul Newman Daytonas? A gen OEM part would be nice, but a similar generic or aftermarket replacement that fits the case and works the Lemania movement would be fine. The pushers that I removed were press-fit (as opposed to screwed) into the case. 2. Does anyone have info (an illustrated, step-by-step tutorial would be a dream come true) on how to "freeze" the 12-hour register so the hand always points to "12"? As is, the Lemania movement's a work of art, but, unfortunately, it's also a dead give-away (as a fake) because of the duplicated hour hands. 3. Other than eBay, is there a source for SS Oyster end pieces that will accept the gen 2mm springbars (the lug spacing is 20mm)? 4. What is the correct crystal for the Paul Newman Daytona (T19, T21, other???)? I have a generic T19 that I was going to use, but I'm wondering if either the T21 or a "Superdome" (not sure of the Tropic number???) would be more authentic? 5. Finally, has anyone ever successfully painted the small black area of the dial that separates the bottom of the 12-hour register from the white band around the circumference of the dial: As it is, it's the only (obvious) flaw on the dial that keeps it from looking gen, but it's so small that I can't figure out how to paint just the small strip without getting the paint on the adjoining areas, which would completely [censored] it up. Viewed through a 7x loupe, the target area's about as wide as the tip of a sewing needle, if that helps.

Too bad you didn't have a better camera, but I enjoyed the trip just the same.

Here's an update: I just checked out some vintage Subs and Sea-Dwellers on TZ and in Dowling's Rolex book and they're definitely narrower than the current modern Subs and SDs. In fact, the DRSD I purchased from Andrew @ Trustytime (thanks again, Andrew!) has what looks like a perfect vintage Triplock crown. Here's a comparison of the (too-wide) crown on the 5514 Comex Sub rep I'm currently working on (on right (crown guard modding in process)) and the crown on the DRSD 1665 from Andrew (on left): Not only is the width of the knurled portion correct on Andrew's DRSD crown, but (similar to the gens) the coronet and dots on the cap are clear, prominent and distinct (sorry, no photo). In fact, it's so accurate that even the (sloping) distance from the edge of the knurled portion to the top of the cap appears to be dead-on. So this rep crown's a good alternative to the gen for modding vintage Subs and SDs (presuming someone knows the source of these rep crowns...Ubiquitous, Ziggy, Ferris Bueller....Anyone???).

I'm not a part expert either, but... Initially, I thought Rob may've been onto something since I'm of the mind that there were (at least) two versions of the Triplock crown--a "wider" one used on current Sub and SD models and a narrower one used on pre-1996 (or so?) models (you can see the differences in crown widths in the latest version of James Dowlings' "Rolex: The Best of Time"). But I have a hard time believing that Rolex would produce a crown wrapped in foil, regardless of the type or quality of the wrapping. That's just not the kind of thing that Rolex does. On the other hand, I found something similar on a DateJust rep about 10 years ago. Once, while I was putting on a jacket with metal snaps, the crown must've grazed one of the snaps which revealed a generic crown under the foil wrapping that contained the coronet. Not exactly the same, but similar enough to make me think it's more likely a rep crown than a genuine Rolex made part.

Yes, absolutely. Thanks.

Thank you for the reply and info. I think you're right about the Triplock, as long as I can find one that isn't too modern (wide)...

Ubiquitious, Yes, that helps alot! I don't know if my previous reply (to thewightstuff) narrowed things down a bit, but here's a pic of the watch with its current crown: While the Twinlock's probably a bit *too* vintage for this model, I think an early Triplock would be fitting (no pun intended). Would that look make sense? The other question is would the crown and crown tube Ziggy fitted onto the Yacht Master in his tutorial also be correct for this 5514 Comex Sub???

Yes, I think you've got the idea. However, just to be clear, I'm aiming at the early Triplock; the crown that's kitted-out an o-ring gasket that becomes visible when the crown is screwed out to time-setting position; not the Twinlock, which doesn't have this gasket. And I'm not really concerned with the style of coronet on the cap of the crown (though it'd be a nice bonus if I could get that right, too). What I'm more concerned with is how wide the knurled part of the crown is when you view the watch from the front. That is, the knurled portion of the crown on current Subs and SDs is relatively wider than the same section of the crown on, say, 70s/80s models. One of the things that usually betrays a rep as being a rep (and not a genuine Sub/SD) is the width of the crown. I know that Rolex often replaces earlier crowns with later versions during service, but I don't think I've ever seen them replace a narrow vintage crown with one of the current (wide) ones. It usually seems to be something about half way between the two and that's probably what I'm aiming for. The rep 5514 that I'm working on now came with one of these wide crowns, which doesn't look at all right on a watch with an acrylic (domed) crystal. Does that make sense?

Does anyone know the correct crown and crown tube sizes for vintage Rolex 5514 and 1665 watches? I need to remove the existing crown (which looks like a modern (larger) SD crown) & crown tube in a few vintage reps to do proper crown guard mods and I figured that I might as well replace the rep parts with gens since the process of removal and reinstallation of the crown tubes are similar, but the end result (with a narrower (vintage) gen crown instead of a wider (new style) rep crown) would be better. I'm kind of following Ziggy's crown tube tutorial, but he performed his transplant on a (newer) Yacht Master model, which I suspect uses one of the current wider(?) crowns. So I'm not sure if the crown (7mm) and crown tube (3mm) he used would be the correct size for vintage Subs/SDs. I know that the crown widths (i.e., the left-to-right width of the crown when viewed from the front of the watch) were narrower on earlier vintage models. So I thought I ought to check before going through the process only to find out later that a too large gen crown looks "fake" on a vintage watch. Ubiquitious, any thoughts?

lionsandtigers, Oops, I guess I missed that. My apologies. Other than welding the holes closed and then redrilling (with a drill press) entirely new holes, I can't see how to move or rebias an existing hole. I used to restore cars and this was a fairly common problem. And I hope you don't mind my asking, but why is this case so revered if the lug holes are off-center? I would think that would immediately preclude it from any kind of serious consideration.

I was hesitant to do it myself, but the lug hole mod really IS easy. Based on Edge and Ziggy's wonderful tutorials (and after some supplemental discussion), I used a 1.3mm Cobalt drill bit (which never jammed or broke), an inexpensive Black & Decker hand drill and some 3-in-1 oil. I wrapped the (unopened) watch in Viva papertowels (to keep the oil from seeping into the case) and held it in my hand. Then, with the other hand, I lined up the drill bit with the first hole and ran it through at moderate speed. I stopped a couple of times on the way through to clear out the metal shavings, re-oil and then continued all the way through. The first hole took about two minutes, if that much. And, as my experience level increased, each subsequent hole took even less time than the previous one. I probably sailed (carefully) through the last hole in less than 30 seconds. Just be sure to keep the drill pointed directly into the hole so you don't "oval" it. Then I cleaned the small amount of burring around the hole with a Dremel "Stainless Steel" wire brush attachment. This took about a minute for each hole. Then I used the Dremel white cloth wheel attachment with some green rouge to buff/polish the outside of each lug to return it to its original shine. About five or six minutes for each side of the case. (I had some experience buffing watch cases when I was a kid, so it might take you a bit more time here...but not much more.) Finally (and this did take a bit of time), I had to grind down the portion of each end piece that fits against the case, because the new (20mm long, 2mm diameter) springbar pins wouldn't quite line up with the lug holes. This took the most time, probably around 15 minutes of trial-and-error grinding and test-fitting until everything snapped together again. In fact, I was quite surprised at how easy this procedure actually is and how well the finished product turned out. The lug holes look absolutely genuine (for a vintage Sub/SD case): I don't think I spent more than an hour on the entire operation. Cleaning up the green rouge (that covered EVERYTHING in the room) was another story....

My hands are anything but steady. But I think if I can work out a scheme to layout the boundaries for the enlarged markers and keep the lume/paint from bleeding or "spilling" beyond the masking, it ought to be a fairly simple exercise. I'm awaiting some tools to get started, but I'll post my results when I can.

By the way, your 1665 is gorgeous. Hopefully, the DRSD I want to mod will turn out as good.

Unfortunately, I don't (have an MBW (but I'd appreciate any info you could provide in locating a source for a new DRSD model)). The 1665 I got from Trustytime has VERY narrow 6 & 9 markers, which is odd considering how accurate the rest of the dial is. Re widening the existing markers: Is the procedure I described (plotting out the larger area with painters masking tape and then using lume paint (from ofrei or similar) the best way to do it? If so, any gotcha's I should watch out for (e.g., paint bleeding under tape, most accurate lume colours, etc.)?

Just wondering...do alot of people replace the rep crown/tube with gen? The crowns on most recent reps I've seen (or purchased) seem to be very close to the gen parts and I'm wondering what, if any, benefit there is to replacing with gen parts?

Is there a tutorial or recommended procedure for how to widen the (too-narrow) hour markers at 6 & 9 on some Subs and Sea-Dwellers? I'm considering marking the correct shapes with painters' masking tape and then using white luminous paste to paint/resize them. Anyone have experience here or is there a source for good, rep Double-Red Sea-Dweller dials?

By the way, is this the proper forum for these questions or should I post them in the Expert Area?

Offshore: Ok, just so I don't end up with the watch equivalent of a drowned camera: the suction-handle contraption (like the one Birdman sells for $4) should be sufficient to reinstall the caseback and still achieve water-tightness (presuming all seals, etc., are up to snuff)? If so, I'll add that to my parts order list. Any other tools/parts/supplies you'd recommend for movement removal, hand r&r, crystal r&r, vintage Sub/Sea-Dweller dial reluming, lug hole enlarging, crown guard modding, etc.? Many thanks!!

I just had a brainstorm: I'll get a 50lb iron anvil and weld the front of the watch case to the top face of the anvil. Then I'll weld the caseback to the drill chuck of my 10 ft/lb hand drill. In theory, since the drill can only muster 10 ft/lbs and the anvil weights more than twice that, the caseback outta loosen long before the anvil leaves terra firma and begins to spin... It's been a long week....

Offshore: I know the tool you're talking about and almost purchased one a few days ago. But I wondered "how do you tighten the caseback to assure water-tightness (or at least water resistance) without the proper socket (to lock onto the caseback splines) and torque"? I figured you still need some sort of socket to reinstall the caseback, and, if so, I might as well get that issue squared away before I try to remove the caseback. I don't want to do a Dubya and get in without having a plan to get out (or, at least, close up). (There's a joke in there somewhere...) lionsandtigers: I don't know if it's a good sign or not, but the duct tape didn't work on the vintage DRSD case I just got from TrustyTime. Alligoat: I don't mean to question your memory, but are you sure the Dbce55a is the correct drill bit to enlarge the lug holes to match the gen Sea-Dweller case and fit the OEM sized spring bars? Just before I placed the order for the Dbce55a, I took another quick look at my 1/16" titanium bit and it doesn't look much larger than the stock lug holes the TrustyTime DRSD rep came with (and the stock lug holes are definitely smaller than the gen holes). So if my 1/16" titanium bit (which is larger in diameter than the Dbce55a) looks too small, could the Dbce55a be the wrong part number?