Legend

^The subdials are still not right. They should be slightly recessed into the dial and have a very specific whiteish-silvery color/texture. Very noticeable when you see the gen, hard to see in pics. The reps are just white.

Still, the softer V3 waffle pattern and color + cream datewheel + silver surrounds are a big improvement.

I wonder if you could shave down the base of the hour hand where it is mounted to the pinion to make the hand stack appear more like gen... ?

Post up pics on that gen strap!

The larger hour hand base is a rep characteristic not many people bring up when comparing gen/rep AP ROOs in the forum. Yet to me, it is one of the obvious tells, having it smack in the center of the dial! I have asked my dealer the same thing before: Would it be possible to shave the base down such that the min hand and hour hand have the same size "base".. and gotten a negative reply. I wonder if it could be done on a DIY basis.

I think higher prices unfortunately are going to be passed along in the very near future

If nothing else this crackdown is costing the dealers and factories money

More watches are being seized, there is pressure on the various supplier factories to not supply rep parts, assemblers are working odd hours, more police/political heat, etc...

All of the above problems require more money

The dial or movement supplier is going to charge the rep factory more to sell them parts because of the risk they are taking, higher percentage of seizures must be amortized in, police and politicians must be bribed more money than before to stay quiet and maybe even the employees are demanding more money to work for an illegal business and at night instead of day

When factories costs increase for any reason the product they produce increases in price to the consumer

cost increases could be absorbed by dealers in the short term, but yes I do foresee the prices of our toys going up in long term, not counting inflation.

I just had a brief email exchange with my dealer today and though the website is up again today, things still look bleak. The raids have lessened in intensity somewhat, according to her, but they have not ended yet. The raids are estimated to go on for another 2-3 months according to my dealer. That's not good news for us!

I like to take risks so I dunk mine in a sink full of blazing hot water. The caseback quickly heats up and heats the air in the case, which increases the pressure. If there's a leak you'll see a stream of bubbles.

lol and what if you really see the stream of bubbles? Time to send it for repair?

All watch related companies are tightening the noose, I got word the other day from my Swiss contact that prices for ETA parts and movements are on the rise and are going to be harder and harder to acquire due to the big corporate entities wanting to limit the distribution of ETA parts on to the open market. So its not just China cracking down. All I can imagine is that since the economies of the world have slowed, people rather buy a good rep. for under $1000 as opposed to a $6k watch, and it's effecting everybody's bottom line. So it looks to me as if things are going to get harder in the future, hope I'm wrong, for all or sake...

Hey J how you doing?

Yes I guess it boils down to a question of demand, supply and affordability.

As long as that $6000 watch is out of reach, yet desired, there will be a demand for reps.

Like you, I hope that the crackdown is yet another one, and not one that forces this industry to go deeper underground.

Didn't you guys see this?

http://www.ttw168.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=241_251&products_id=5484

Listed at $89k and its going for about $8-9k if you enquire.. lol

It seems the industry has outgrown its proper role in society. At a minimum it is no longer business as usual as it has been over the last couple of years. Guess it was getting too easy. It is one thing when you have a 50 women in a random basement assembling watches. Very easy to move that " factory". When the factory becomes more of a real high volume factory it is a lot tougher to close up and open elsewhere. As someone who has observed the rep industry for 10 years + the one thing I do know is that it doesn't disappear. It just adapts. So whether we will now go back to "Vietnamese" or "Malaysian" bests the industry will carry on. Heck a majority of our dealers don't even live in China. They are smarter than that. Factories come and go. And the current factories were wielding too much power and making too much money. A smart dealer just moves the card game. From a buyer perspective it is feeling like the old days. Buy very carefully and from trusted dealers.

same wares under a different front, I agree..

Oh absolutely, I just find it amusing that during a time when many forum trusted dealers are reporting issues, an off-board source comes through with the goods, and sooner than any previous order For the record, it was a budget GMT Master II

I don't think Rolex supplies are affected much. There are dealers that went offline entirely, and there are factories that cease operations for the time being. You're lucky, and should enjoy your watch

Today Andrew assured me that orders will be sent promptly, however one of his employees has been arrested, and sits in a chinese prison.

His freight forwarder was raided and many package were seized by the Chinese police. Fortunately mine was not one of them and it is on the way.

This problem has been taken care of and customers may now safely order with confidence. The crackdown continues though and it is serious,

far more so than anything in the past. There is a united front of Swiss watch makers filing multiple lawsuits in America, and Europe seeking damages, cease

& desist, along with a litany of copyright infringement claims. The pressure on China is huge. Nothing like ever before. This has become a huge embarrasment

to the P.R. of China. They are the second most powerful country on earth, and change is afoot to garner stronger diplomatic and economic relations.

My personal feeling is that one should not procrastinate to long if you want a collection of rep watches.

Hi Hambone, I agree with your view. Talking about Andrew, it seems that the website for Trusty is down again?

Do you have the latest site? I tried ttw168.com Thanks

I like your story.

A rep will always be a rep and a gen will always have its value.

But we cannot deny that the reps are evolving toward better quality (general build, accuracy of features, better lumes etc) and as long as there exists a salient price difference between the rep and the gens, the reps would always have a market. Rep haters like the guy you mentioned would always be around. Whats most important is that you enjoy your hobby and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Just to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons, I've got to report completely the opposite situation... I ordered a new watch 8 days ago, was prepared to wait 4-5 weeks for it to arrive, then see the threads about factory raids and think "Oh [censored]..." I was tempted to send a message to the dealer and enquire if I should expect delays, but didn't, and today, I received the new watch, way faster than the dealer has ever sent anything before

You are talking about one watch, and I am talking about the general situation. I guess not every order would be affected. It would all depend on which watch you ordered, and the choices your dealer made when it comes to accepting orders and delivery. Its good that you got your watch quickly, but there are many who would not, had they placed their order at the wrong time. There will always be exceptions in situations like this. Not every factory would be affected, and for those affected, there would be those that still operate in short window spans. I do not think your post is a "cat among the pigeons". Its more like "the white crow among the black"

Hahaa cheers on the Olympics part. Anyway, Andrew just told me the factory has just reopened and the raids have stopped! Now awaiting qc pics. Hope everything goes smoothly

excellent news. My order has been on hold for quite a bit now.. lol

The raids are regular parts of the rep business.. happens at least 2-3 times a year.

The authorities need to be seen doing their job, even on a perfunctory basis.

This time does happen to appear more serious, with rumors aplenty regarding the fates of the affected factories.

We would just have to wait and see. Or maybe, its just a giant conspiracy to cover up the factory folks taking a mass hiatus to travel to London to watch the olympics.

fingersxd

your nick is apt for what I am about to say, which is, I am keeping my fingers crossed. lol

Was just told by my TD that he doesn't think Noob are coming back at all.

Thats a catastrophic statement!

It would be prudent to wait ordering for a week or so as the Chinese police have arrested a number of people in the rep trade,

and seized packages from the freight forwarders. We all get anxious and count the day till our time pieces arrive, but the fact is,

and please believe me, the next 10 days are important to lay low for the sake of our hobby, and to support the guys who make this hobby possible.

We all want the best outcome, and it is time to be as supportive as possible to these hard working family men who face possible prison terms. My feeling is that it will

blow over. Pitfalls are the norm for our game and the pitfalls have never been more alarming. Be patient.

Dear Hambone

thank you for the update. Sounds serious to me, but I understand this is a routine part of the rep industry in China.. same goes for rep handbags and other luxury goods.

The rep industry is simply too lucrative to be kept down. I agree with you, patience is imperative here.

Situation update:

Earlier on today, got news from a dealer (not one of the TDs here) that the noob factory is operating again.

I checked with connie from Kingwatch and found that this is not the case. She has given me a time of "2-3 weeks" for it to get going again, but she did not sound convincing.

Anyone else with updates on this?

Situation update:

Earlier on today, got news from a dealer (not one of the TDs here) that the noob factory is operating again.

I checked with connie from Kingwatch and found that this is not the case. She has given me a time of "2-3 weeks" for it to get going again, but she did not sound convincing.

Anyone else with updates on this?

I do not think its easy to tell from that photo.

Like hambone said, its a good rep. I used to own a gen milgauss that I purchased from a friend years back.

I sold it after deciding that its not my cup of tea.

It is reasonable to assume that when you buy online, you SHOULD get a brand new item with new parts, and if that is not the case, the TD should inform you accordingly.

Having said that, I am not surprised that problems like this are encountered from time to time.

You are being dealt with dishonestly, and you should highlight that to the TD involved if you intend to carry on a business relationship with him..

He could always argue that he supplied you what you requested, albeit it not being brand new. $400 plus is a little high to pay for the watch though in my opinion, unless it has value added features.

I got an update that Noob factory is open.. has anyone else heard anything?

Giveaways on the watch:

a. Rep hands

b. Case is 100% rep. The gens have plot screws perfectly centered and the reps have them slightly off center.

c. pushers look wrong

d. Crown and pushers alignment says rep, and angle of shot appears to be used to conceal this deliberately.

Your friend could ask for a direct close up shot of the dial to confirm, but from what I see, a definite REP.

sorry saw the wrong watch.. its a rep!

Hi folks. I'm brand new to this whole scene, so I've been checking out the whole of RWG. This place is sensational. I have so much to learn! I've been following this thread in particular. The whole process of chasing down the suppliers, but leaving the factories alone, smacks of the authorities just needing to be seen to be doing something to appease somebody. Just my humble opinion.

To track the factories down would take much more time and effort, which translates to much more money being thrown down the drain. This is because they can never really eradicate the factory operations. As long there exists a great cost discrepancy between the gen and rep watches, there will always be a demand for the reps. And the chinese are very shrewd opportunists. Shut down factory A, and it simply resurrects again under a different company in a matter of months or even weeks. Forcing the rep industry to go underground via legal enforcements may just drive the rep prices up due to scarcity of demand, and until the pricing becomes inflated to an absurd level or a complete industry meltdown occurs due to consistent and aggressive enforcement, the rep industry is here to stay for a long long time...

I visited the website, and immediately recognise that this is a site run by nothing more than low class douche cons.

For instance, all their AP sec@12 are advertised as swiss 7750 movements. I don't believe they are anything more than A7750 movements.

The prices are ridiculous as well. These people prey on the ignorant, please cut your losses, move on, and stay with the trusted dealers here.

Oh, there will still be occasional issues even with the best of dealers, but you can at least be assured that the TDs here are generally helpful and sincere.

Actually, I don't see why the prestige brand watch makers have to worry and fuss.

The guy who buys a $300 rep does so because he would not or could not spend the $6000 on the gen item.

so even without the rep being available, he would not be buying the gen anyway. The only issue is when the rep product becomes a 100% replacement for the gen item, at 5% of the price. But currently, without spending salient amounts of money on replica watches, this is not achievable for >99% of the rep watches that come out of the box? I am talking about true 100% replication here.

In fact, the rep business serves to market the brands they replicate.

Its just that once in a while, the legal issues need to prop up to remind the rep makers not to go too far in their endeavors. Kind of like a kick in the shin to remind the over enthusiastic little brother who's the boss.

This too shall pass. Just ride it out guys.