Pix

Great indeed.

The experience shows however that often those who dare to face the users will get blames for the absents' faults. I really hope that won't happen with Mark, as he's really a great guy.

I'm always glad I can share my pictures, even if the subject of this thread is a pretty inconsistent rep...

If I had to choose now, I would go for yours, as it's better from the replication point of view (pushers, logo).

I'm sure it's not that difficult to have a good rep of the Monza.

Agreed with you Vric, that's why I bought the HBB only when the lite version came out.

I was not ready to pay 600 dollars+/- when the ceramic bezel version first came out (that was the price ?)

Then I went for some mods : 260 shipped + 75 AR coating + 60 PVD coated bezel = 395 for a close to the ceramic version.

Add an other 60-70 dollars for the rotor engraving, and there we have an honest version

Dealer have some room in their margin, but indeed if the manufacturer sets a high price, you won't have the rep for 50% of its price, except if it's some dead stock or has some flaws (note that the latest point is not valid with all dealers...)

Look at my review (signature) : I bought it (a long time ago) from a dealer on RWI called WBK. I'm sure our dealers here can find the same.

Thanks for trying to explain us where the differences come from.

My understanding from an other thread is that there are indeed 2 manufacturers, with 2 different cases, 2 different crown types and 2 different straps (I own both straps, one is normal and the other is indeed fraganced).

The other difference surely comes from the movement : one is low beat, the other high beat. And the rotor (one is engraved, the other has stickers)

I have bought the lite version from Watchmark when it first appeared. That was the same manufacturer as the "original" rep. You can't notice the difference with the high beat movement, as the small seconds@9 is sweeping smoothly. Even the stopwatch function is smooth, of course not as smooth as the high beat. Which I particularly like in this movement is the (dummy ?) regulator which makes it look more like the real thing.

I have absolutely had no issues (bought it last september). Works accurately (I don't think it's worse in time keeping than the high beat one). I (almost) never set up the time (it's in a watchwinder). I am pretty convinced (it's a personnal feeling) that these movements are not the same as the first problematic 7750 which we had 2 years ago.

Regarding the lite version, there's one thing still I don't understand : the first versions had a 21.6 k movement and a thick datefont (the one I proudly own) and the following had a 28.8 k movement, with no price difference.

An other aspect which could explain the price difference is that there are models with real ceramic bezels, and other with steel bezels which are PVD coated. It's impossible to check with the pictures. The dealer can do it by unscrewing the bezel and look at the color of the thing.

Last factor : Watchmark is making less margin And as Ken said, some pay for the high prices, and some dealers "forgot" to decrease their prices...

@Vric : as mentionned I bought one of the first lite versions, and it seems that you can't find this anymore except from Silix. I have no information, but feel he has the last pieces. Then it might be that there won't be HBB under 400 dollars anymore soon.

I'm going to beat a dead horse but the question is : is the 21.6 k movement really to be considered as unreliable ? Owning 2, I confirm having absolutely no issues.

I even tend to think that it might prolong the movement's life as well as the power reserve ?

If the case is 44 in both models (which I believe), we may create franken watches. I don't think they are different, as the second manufacturer has probably cloned the first, avoiding buying the real thing to replicate.

In any case, I think that our apprentice's step is remarkable and help understand many things : it is not always clear for dealers what the manufacturers strategy is, and we can't always hold them for responsible of certain issues (fake ETA movements, silent changes against what is advertized). The dealer is good for me if he does QC, does not dropship and solves your problems when they occur.

I'd love to make a side by side comparison between both models.

@Watchmark : BTW, your website is improving day by day

Thx BT

I was thinking that Quartz cheap reps are not the cup of tea of our members, which I understand.

Glad that it will be linked from your guide.

Tastes are most subjective things... I think we could have dozens of opinions on "it's fugly" and "it's awesome"... Probably needless to argue.

For the B&R the main concern in my case is that I can't get a correct version because they're all too large for my wrist... This is a fact.

I think Silix has them too... but $455 on the watchmark site with a genuine polished ceramic bezel is not bad in that case

That's where you must be careful : have confirmed that it's real (not genuine ) ceramic.

42mm is indeed annoying, although :

- there are genuines @41 mm

- maybe it's just a question of how the bezel is measured... HBB owners, try to measure yours, we'll have different results I'm sure

I would not be against 42 mm instead of 44 on my wrist...

Noone will ever have figures on market shares but... whereas I have no difficulty imagining the rep market is 100 times bigger than what 10-15.000 boards members represent, when you separate the segments "crappy reps" and "high end reps", I'm sure that this percentage will drastically change in "our" favour. How much of the population is :

- ready to put that much in a watch ?

- ready to put that much in a rep ?

Thx for sharing.

I bought a crazy hour for a friend a long time ago : Iwas surpised how good it looks and how good a cheap rep can be.

There are versions without spelling mistakes, as there are obviously different manufacturers.

Also be careful about the 1 fontshape, those from Trusty don't look always accurate.

Funny watch that will draw attention. Add the colour, and you've a really original inexpensive watch.

Why not buy a kevlar strap from Angus, strip off the kevlar and fit a new alligator jacket around the inner of the strap?

I think it can't be well finished, because it's this special structure with metal parts which prevent to stick something thick on it. Result on the rep kevlar strap are uneven angles and not completely covered metallic parts. These are the flaws which made me want to find some other strap.

I can do them, (located in the US). Send me a PM for more detail...

That's most interesting and there are surely many potential buyers around. Do you have pictures of your straps to post here for everyone ? Thank you.

Came today... I'm speechless...

Leather fits marvelously well with the Blackbird... The bracelet is of excellent quality too.

Honest QC from the dealer and... it seems that the pearl issue is a bad souvenir (although not 100% perfect yet)

Slightly unaligned bezel, more or less same flaw as on the SFSO.

Thanks a lot.

Indeed I got his answer after midnight.

I will go for him (prepare everything now) as he knows the Ingy already.

I got an answer from ABP, who is really willing to help but they say they have never done any strap for this watch and invite me to visit them to check how to do by having a look at the watch

I won't, for several reasons you can imagine, the first being simply that I don't live in Paris...

That's why it's important to find a dealer who does that for you... I know it's naive, but there are some. Of course this QC is limited, as the dealer won't open the rep for you for instance. And also I learnt that what is a detail for them is often a key point for us (pearl, bezel etc...)

@Ken : no worry, I did not take your remark for me personnaly. And it was not yours, it was a manufacturer's one, which I'm not surprised with

Sure.

In my case the bracelet was badly finished. Did not need a loupe : common sense was enough

And I was not the one pretending "this is an MBK rep"...

Add the fact that this Nautilus had a socalled Swiss ETA 2824 whose rotor winded only in one direction (not normal for a Swiss 2824), you'll understand that it's not a question of whining because 2 microns are missing from the case...

But I agree, nothing is perfect in this world : factory owners included...

I was more shocked by the threat of banning the dealer than by the other remarks.

However, when you reach a certain level of price, I would tend to say that some issues should not happen : they don't happen on cheap Casios, why on expensive reps ? I'm not talking of replication accuracy, but really of severe lacks in some jobs (all of us have at least one example). That's surely naive, but that's how I am...

Needless to mention that this was not a cheap rep.

This is the answer of this seller. He was fast at replying

Hello

In order to make an order, it must write a mail with the model, color of skin, thread color, length, width, and once confirmed it would give the price him and you devera to pay in an account, the price of the one of black color are bovine skin imitation in crocodile and its price is of 75

(...) If they care.

They don't

I remember my story with the "chinese MBK" Nautilus.

I was unhappy, really, with the finish of the bracelet. Mentionned that to my favorite dealer. Who reported this to the factory...

Answer (not the exact words, but sounds like that) :

"this is the best we are doing, these are reps, if you disturb us for such things in the future we won't sell to you anymore, if your customer is not happy, he can go and buy the real thing..."

I guess they were right.

I guess they really don't care...

Aren't the first lite versions available anymore ? They cost between 250 and 300 dollars, i.e. a normal price...

The dealer in question maintains that's last year's price and that the website has not been updated in error....

Do you believe that ?

When prices raise I never met this problem.

The Baume&Mercier Riviera is the example of what I expect in a rep : high quality from the 1st batch, no major flaw.

I'd be buyer for the rubber strap too.

Thx for sharing.

Running movement on some others...