TeeJay

I'm having a bit of a frustrating time, and wondered if anyone might have any suggestions... When it arrived, my new 16610 was water resistant: I showered and bathed in it, and ran it under the cold faucet at full force, with no issues what so ever. A few days ago, I noticed that the 10 marker was very slightly raised from the dial, and the crystal was offset by 1 degree clockwise, so I decided to fix the issues for something to do, and since then, if the watch is held under the running faucet (or taken outside in the cold) the inside of the crystal fogs up There is absolutely zero signs of actual flooding, ie no droplets round the edge of the crystal, and no droplets around the inside of the caseback or crown. I used a vice to clamp the case, so I know the crystal is seated as firmly as possible, and the gasket appears exactly as it did before popping the crystal, and the caseback and crown are being screwed down as tightly as possible, allowing no further rotation...

Any ideas? Could this be due to the crystal transmitting temperature fluctuation, like the inside of a house window condensing on a cold day, rather than 'traditional leakage'? Any suggestions? At the moment, I'm trying gently warming the watch dismantled so as to let it dry, bu

t several drying periods have this far not prevented the fogging occuring, neither did replacing the gaskets, so thought I'd open this one up to those in the know

Thanks for the feedback, amigos I'm about to watch the film again properly, and will keep my eyes peeled

I was just watching the movie (got about halfway through, before deciding to call it a night) and his watch caught my attention in a few scenes. It looked like a black-dialled early Daytona (I forget the model number) on a black leather (or possibly Tropic) strap, and I was wondering if anyone knew for sure what watch he was wearing?

Nothing like a custom build

Zk, Mazzariol's blog is great for photos and gives inspiration, but :

Mazzariol is not really a trusted reference, what is true, he is an Italian, we know Italian are good for speeches and spectacular gesticulation, talking with hands

lot of Italian are hanging after Rolex parts worlwide, ebay chitty-crappy Rolex faded parts auctions, lot of books from Italy, full of Italian catalogs of Cosmographs for sale, sounds like Italian archeologs have found a secret Rolex Vintage Watches factory, (yes, in Roswell/USA for sure)

- and may be also the white GMT dial - also the Coca Cola story and Santa Klaus

this white rolex GMT was never confirmed, its a myth, like PanAm pilots using a GMT master, "Oh my god ! fortunately I fly with my GMT Master ! I will know exactly what time is it here or there" advertising showing captains with full gold Rolex... ridiculous

Note : No necessary to post pics with 777 and 747 cockpit with a GMT equiped wrist close up, and to try to impress me with rubbish I have spent 30 years in heavies flying worlwide, without a Rolex GMT at my wrist

just kidding

Thanks to an Italian magazine, folks insist on referring to the 1655 as a 'McQueen', but the simple fact, is that there is absolutely zero evidence of him ever owning one. Not a single photo of confirmation...

He is 1 of the authors of the Daytona Bible, but maybe you do not like Daytonas

Being an expert in Daytonas does not qualify him as an expert in GMTs An interesting blog article though, and reassuring to see such sloppy dial printing on a genuine product, it certainly showcases the quality of commercially available replicas

I'm obviously the minority here, but I never intend to get a gen. Ever.

It just depends on the value you can give to your hobby. I can't justify paying $5k for a watch. Maybe this is because I've only recently made my way from middle class to upper class. I can however justify paying about $1k for ~4-5 good reps. I've worn my 45mm PO for about a month now and nobody has even noticed it, let alone questioning the authenticity.

I'm not the type that can keep my watches in good condition, so my resale value on a gen would be terrible.

The only factor that makes me want a gen is the fact that I can't put my rep anywhere near water..

Why? I never had an issue with the water resistance of three Planet Oceans, and I'm sure I paid a lot less for mine than you did for yours Have you ever had it it flood, or have you simply never tried getting it wet because of the rumor that reps flood at the first sight of rain?

Josh probably had his team of little helpers killed during the raids, so that they wouldn't hang him in front of a judge, he'll hire another team of little helpers within a day or two.

Yeah I totally agree, I really was only joking about the gen at half price stuff. I saw your previous post, gens simply aren't worth it with the rep standards that are available these days, especially even more so in the case of subs and pams and other very close reps to gen. Even though there is a whole section of rep forums that will still dissect every small detail of the best modded subs such as bks and tcs, these differences are so small, nobody in the real world would even notice, even in many cases when the differences are pointed out to them. For those reasons it's only a very rare occasion that I would want a 'closer look' at a gen these days and it would seriously have to be a particular watch where the rep is lacking, (like the speedy pro).

On a side note also on behalf of those people who used to save hard to buy a gen they really liked, or even just to see what is all the fuss about a particular iconic watch; I really hope the recent insane price hikes in the past few years of the swiss watch industry come back to bite the industry in the arrse, they've gone too far now, a sub 16610 could be had used a few years ago for around £2Kish, now you'd be hard pressed to get one on the 2nd hand market in good nick, recent model, for below £4K, all thanks to ridiculous price hikes of the greedy industry! Reps ftw!

I can't see the gen industry ever taking a hit on business levels, all the time there are tasteless rappers prepared to pay the pricetag to feel like a Mac Daddy, but I do hope that in time, the general public will come to see through the consumerist branding and marketting lies, and realize that the 'counterfeit goods' can very often be produced on the same lines as the 'real thing'. As I mentioned in another thread, the watch on my wrist says Rolex on the dial, it doesn't flood when it gets wet, and the movement is barely out of COSC standard in out of the box condition (something I can tweak when I modify the dial as a 16800 conversion project) It is a Rolex, it was just assembled in China, rather than Switzerland

God TJ, brewing up a bit of a hatred towards gens there If you were to be offered your favourite watch of all time at half retail, knowing you could wear it without bother for a year or two and sell it on easily getting all your money back would you not even be slightly tempted?

Not even slightly Although I wouldn't say it's my all time favorite watch, I'll use the 16610 Submariner as an example: The gen is appx £3000 at retail. Rather than paying that 4-5 years ago, I bought a 16610 from EuroFakes at about $800 (YSerial, whatever kind of rep that relates to) Knowing what I do now, I know that I well and truly got my pants pulled down over the price, even though the watch itself, I will call flawless. I expect it did have flaws, but in every comparison I made to gen images, I could never find any discrepancies... The other week, I received a budget 16610 which was about £38 shipped. Now, while it has some easily noticeable differences, such as size of hands and hour markers, construction of the diver's extension, lack of engravings, it is by all measurable visual standards, a less accurate replication than the EuroFakes Submariner, yet it is still a perfectly wearable watch. Something the average guy on the street likely would not know enough to distinguish from the real thing, something which keeps time at +9.5 seconds a day, is readable in the dark, and doesn't fog up when it gets wet, so an equally wearable time piece, but at a fraction of the cost, so even at 50% retail, I'd still not be willing to lay out that kind of money on a gen, as the budget replica ticks all the boxes Even if I had Walden Schmidt's $1.3b, given my life of financial woe and 'making do', I wouldn't be able to shake the conditioning of thinking that the gen simply wasn't worth the money

Yeah it was a long time ago, and he was a bit green then so even though he was crushed at the time, and for a while after, he has long got over it. He is just kind of 'meh' about watches in general for years now, show him a rep and it's 'meh', show him a photo of a gen Lange datograph and it just 'meh' ....can't satisfy some people The strange thing is he was the one who really got me to notice watches before that when I was in my teens, he would show a pic of a rolex explorer in a magazine or the newly released smp at the time and say "what do ya think?". Just lost total interest I guess. He's into his cameras in a big way though!

That's a shame the experience totally turned him off watches, you never know, he may regain his interest in the future

On a side note, like above I think in general, forumites are pretty good and clued in when it comes to rep etiquette. It's highly unlikely someone from the forums who has any clue would go about shoving the watch in peoples faces broadcasting its a rep, usually that sort of behaviour is reserved for those who buy £20 quid reps while on holiday in Turkey or Morocco. Usually if someone asks about the watch it's very easy to ascertain from their enthusiasm or (lack of it) whether the are into watches or just asking 'fake or not?' It's usually then up to the rep owner how (far) they want to continue with the discussion. Ronin's answer of "actually, I restored/customised this watch, it is a hobby of mine" regarding frankens is an excellent gauge of the questioners interest...i must use that one sometime

It's a pity more people aren't into watches, 99 times out of a 100 nobody bothers asking anything, except for the other half going "that's not another bloody watch is it?"

I've had more conversations about project watches in general, rather than the "Is that real?" question I've found that people're a bit more interested in projects, even if they're not really into watches, than just noticing them I think in general, most 'non-watch folks' simply don't care

Since my previous reply to this thread, my thoughts have changed slightly on the subject: I now wouldn't even buy a gen for donor parts for one of my bastardization projects If I was somehow to find/inherit/receive/win a gen, fine, but othersise, I simply wouldn't ever want one

Pics :tu:

I've NEVER been asked if any of the watches I own is a rep or gen. It's usually just a "nice watch, what is it? Can I see?"

I do however have a colleague that has really bad Chinese reps and today showed me his Explorer II and bragged about how he only paid $35 for it.

That's cheaper than what I buy

Pure class An absolutely flawless project

Can't wait to see how it looks when it's finished, bro When funds allow, I'm going to be undertaking a 16610 to 16800 project, from the budget end of the spectrum

Heard about that story too Teejay, I can imagine how feelings towards a previously loved watch would change in accordance to how much was overpaid, even if the rep is a good one.

Similar thing happened to my brother, he bought a 2nd hand breitling navitimer back in the mid nineties, he bought it through a newspaper ad and it came with boxes/cards and all the trimmings etc. It looked good to me, but then again at the time I had no idea what I was looking at, I was just getting into watches and starting to notice and admire the blue smp etc.

Anyway he loved that watch, wore it constantly for about 6 months showing everyone his pride and joy when it suddenly stopped in work one day. He took it to a watchsmith and within seconds of opening the caseback and heard it was a rep...but a good one, his face dropped like he had been stabbed in the heart!

I think it seriously put him off watches for life, not just reps but watches rep or gen. He wears a seiko diver these days and I doubt will ever pay over £200 for a watch again. I have tried to get him to get into reps or 2nd hand gens (through the proper channels ) but no way will he bother, it's not a hatred he has just a complete indifference now...strange!

Still that is a different scenario from a person knowingly wearing a rep but would not admit it even to someone who is cool with reps, ever for fear of losing face. I can only put it down to a personality trait maybe, just insecurity or deeply defensive about it becoming known to the outside world.

Sorry to hear about your brother getting stung like that, I can understand why it's soured him to watches, and indeed, quite a difference wearing a rep and knowing that it is, rather than thinking something is the real thing, and then being told it's not, shame on those who sells reps as gen...

My thoughts mirror what Freddy333 said above.

I walk that fine line from time to time. If I were wearing my Ronin-1680 that is ALL GEN except the Yuki mid-case, I would never confess it to be less than genuine (just like I would never say a car is less genuine because it had some aftermarket body panels, after an accident). I tend to lead the conversation with, "actually, I restored this watch, it is a hobby of mine", and see where it goes. Usually nowhere.

On the other hand, if I were wearing my DW/Spin/Ronin Daytona or PAM 029 (as good as it is), I would come clean about their replica origin-- if the vibe and person were right.

People who immediately jump up and confess their Rep actually freak me out sometimes. It is as if they are so conscience and thus self-conscience about it they try and take the-- "I'm frugal, ha ha ha, don't judge me, I'm the class clown" approach.

Finally, on the RARE occasion these situations actually come up, I try and drop subtle hints. "Are you into watches, are you on ANY watch forums, Have you heard of the H/Noob/WM9-Factory?". To date, nobody has responded to those hints, and instead got the deer in the headlight expression. If they don't respond/know, I am not going to confess, and instead change the subject.

YMMV

Oh for sure, I wouldn't spew "It's a fake, I'm a cheapass!!!" if someone was to simply mention the watch, they would have to actually ask the question to be told that

All I can say, is if someone can strip the watch themself, it's no hassle to dunk it under a running faucet, and swiftly strip it if needbe... If not, then by all means go to somewhere that can use a professional pressure tester. As I've said quite a bit lately though, chances are the watch will be water resistant

I'm sure I heard about a story on TZ a year or so back where a guy had owned a particular sub for about ten years, totally believed it to be the real deal, but when he sent it away for servicing, they turned round and told him it was a rep. I always took this is a good example of how a person's perception of an item is all that changes, yet can dramatically alter their feelings about it, but equally, it's a good example of how someone genuinely might not know they were wearing a rep, so always saying it was gen

Sure will! I'll even link him here if he starts BS again. Would be fun to see what he would have to say for himself in this thread.

I would say what makes someone act like that, but having read the blog, it's pretty clear the guy has some serious insecurities (probably hung like a hamster) so that explains the love for BIG MASCULINE WATCHES There's nothing wrong with buying and wearing replica watches, it's simply a case of smart purchassing: Why pay an over-inflated pricetag for a watch which probably costs less that $50 to make? There's a fine line when it comes to 'fronting'... I'm not ashamed of any of the watches I own, and wear them with equal pride, I have no fear of wearing them out in public. The watch on my wrist right now says 'Rolex' on the dial, it's telling the time, it doesn't flood when it gets wet, the hands glow, and the second hand sweeps smooth as silk, not once a second like quartz (I do love my quartz Submariner though ) or worse yet, skipping every few seconds as it sweeps. This is a real watch... It is a Rolex... It just happens to have been made in China, rather than Switzerland I wear it like what it is. If someone was to say "Nice watch..." I'd thank them. If someone was to ask where I got it, I would tell them: "Internet..." and if they asked if it was 'real', then I would tell them honestly There was a guy a few years back who tried putting down some janitor over his quartz sub, trying to pass his own rep off as the real thing, just to try and look like a pimp infront of some girl, he got chased off the forum pretty quick... The guy who owns that collection is clearly cut from the same cloth as the other douchebag... Not someone who's opinion you need to concern yourself with... It's YOUR watch, bought with YOUR money, it's MEANT to be on YOUR wrist, and don't let some under-sized Beta, who wishes he was an Alpha, tell you otherwise

If he was a member here, someone would have recognized his collection by now... Next time he tries playing Mr Big Potatoes, just tell him you know all the watches are fake and tell him to fuck off

Looking again, I think new subdial hands on the middle watch as well

New pushers on the outside watches?

As you can see - if the collection is gen it's quite a collection. The guy told me that my Pam 253i was for poor MF and that I should buy a real watch... Hence the question if his watches are Gen. His work and place to live doesnt add up with the amount of money thats in that box

If you know the guy's means don't add up to that kind of gen collection, I'd say he's just a douchebag trying to blow smoke up your ass, those pictures don't prove a thing. Serial numbers, on the other hand, would be much more revealing

Anytime I hear people selling their watches for "financial troubles/family problems" ... I just get a bad feeling

I'm on the verge of selling my Tudor Heritage due to financial trouble... The only thing preventing me doing so, is that it has too much sentimental value, and at sale, won't raise enough money to actually be of any real financial assistance, so I would be down a piece which means a lot to me, and still not have enough cash to make the difference, so no sale for me, but just to say, sometimes, financial difficulties are legit

No pic, but now back with the 1655 in honor of Hike's expedition. The 16610 tapped out at +9/10 seconds, and will be sitting in the parts tray till I can begin the 16800 conversion project, but no matter how soon it's finished, the 1655 won't be coming off till Hike hits the peak