GenTLe

As AndyFors wrote I've not found (yet) a good A.L&S good reps... Many reps are done from original watches, and this is one of the reasons they're so good, but normally it's for gen watches that don't go over 10k€. A.L&S are "a bit" more expensive, so the reps are done from pictures, and therefore can't be that accurate They are not THAT bad, but also not like, for example, certain Panerai or Omega or Rolex (stainless steel ones). For example compare these 2 (the original is the second), look were are the subdials: http://www.ttw888.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=935 http://www.alange-soehne.com/assets/Timepieces/FrontImage-440x720-px-FrontDetailImage-2320x3600-px/TP-402-026-Zoom-front-72dpi2.jpg The black flyback chrono is better, but it's an handwind mechanism: I'd be bothered to have to rewind it every day ;-) Less expensive ones (i.e. http://www.ttw888.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=8851) have a very low hand caliber may have mineral glass (synthetic sapphire = ???...)

Hi Abat, is it the BP or NOOB one? Tnx!

Hi Gents, my first rep has been a PAM164: I've noticed that after around 7 days of use with the same shirt (discontinued: I don't wear a shirt for 7 days in a row :-)) the left cuff of that shirt was worn :-(((( Just wondering if you've same problem with Panerai case (or with other watches) and if I'll have to wear it only with short (or rolled-up) sleeves! Cheers, GenTLe

Hi Gents, as from the subject, after some 10/15 posts is now time for presenting myself :-) I'm Alex (GenTLe as Nickname), writing from beautiful Italy (north side of it) Came into this hobby after I purchased a really "el cheapo" bad rep in Istanbul last Jan, going only for the look, which was a kind of franken between a Calibre de Cartier (the dial) and a Ronde the Cartier (the case) with a low end 21.6kbph. Then I started to scratch about that model in the web, discovered that it was a mess, and slowly started to gain some knowledge here and there about dealers, models, factories, calibers etc etc. So then I got my first PAM (http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/170323-pam00164-review-from-andrew/) and now i'm looking forward to get back a new credit card (as I got the wallet stolen 1 week ago - my bad: forgot my bag on the train... Found it back from a lady the day after with everything but the money, but in the meantime I had already made the banks to "burn" all my cards there) so that I can use it with PP and get a nice Omega POLM and probably also a good rep of a Calibre de Cartier from ToroBravo :-) Here we are. Ciao, GenTLe

Hey Doug, how the story ended up?

Hi Gents, I recently met an old friend from the boy-scout period (when we were both around 16yo) and discovered that he worked around 10/15 years as watchsmith in one high level goldsmith shop, repairing/servicing Rolex/AP etc etc. Now he opened his own watchsmith shop and I was wondering to propose him some kind of business for the world this Forum represent since, as most probably all here have experienced, it's a disaster to find techs that accept our watches. I would NOT do this for my personal gain (well, at most I'll ask him to service one of my watches for free ) but just because this could help us (within EU there are no customs so it's not like sending a watch to the Zigmeister in Canada...) and also him to gain something because, as said, his shop is pretty new (not so for his experience). I think (but this for sure must be verified) that servicing reps should not fall into some legal trap as it's a not a matter of selling or purchasing counterfeited objects I'll ask him if he's interested just for servicing (unassembly/cleaning/oiling/reassembly/synchronizing), not for repairing (at most just caliber replacement) because he's a friend and I don't want him to go mad trying to repair watches for which the spare parts are crazy to find. So, just to understand the possible audience, is some of you guys interested to have such a possibility? Cheers, GenTLe

Hi Dusk, in the end, by myself, I've finished to select the same one you linked to me :-D Just an advise: TB offers the Noob POLM with ETA (+180$) and with "asian ETA" made by seagull (as he stated in a private mail)... I'm wondering if there's value for money for the original ETA or if it's a good idea to go for the asian one... Do you have experience in this sense? Tnx, GenTLe

Yes, Josh's one is www.p-cls.com

Very nice post, but I think now it's really out of date: 6 years since then. I do believe (and hope) that the movement quality has been raised in these years. Unfortunately I've seen that Zigmeister (or RWG Technical like he was posting) is not around from a while (last post dated July 2 2013) :-(( Anyone has news about him? I mean not to asking him to come back, just to know if he's fine as I've a feel of gratitude for him, even not knowing him, just because reading his posts I gained a good amount of knowledge... I see, for example, a7750 used to run non-chrono Panerai with sec @9 and wondering how strong they are; or these "new, super ultimate new, ultraimprooverd!,THE ULTIMATISSIMO -italian rewording ;-) -" a7750 29J with sec @6 present in the last IWCs... Is there any good-willing expert that can advise on them and set the new set of rules for them? We're always speaking about 300+ US$ pieces, so that's could be really a good point in my view... Thanks a lot, GenTLe

Hi Essex, for my experience, I'd go for TrustyTime (aka Andrew -> http://www.ttw888.com/) or Perfect Clones (aka Joshua -> http://www.p-cls.com): they both sell practically and nearly the same watches (and they also know each other and are friends). Both from around Shenzhen. I much more prefer TrustyTime website because it's more usable in my view (i.e. you can use the "open in a new tab" function, very comfortable when comparing 2 models). If you want to see last PAM I took from Andrew, just give a look to this little presentation: http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/170323-pam00164-review-from-andrew/ Another one interesting (most probably the next rep will be from him) it's ToroBravo (http://www.torobravos2014.com/), again from China but with much less models and (in my humble opinion) poorly descriptions of the watch characteristics (this time i'm going for him because the same watch in TrustyTime is with a lower end movement respect to the one from ToroBravo). As already stated they all ship to UK and also keep in mind that, for a very good rep, be ready to spend from 170 to 200 UK£, and even more for some special pieces like, for example, the fully bronze Panerai (there are versions costing less but only bronze coated) or certain models with original ETA movements. Bye, GenTLe

Hi Gents, does anyone knows if the (in)famous problem with the a7750 with secs @6 has been FINALLY resolved (possibily with the number of gears reduced from 5 to 3 and running on jewels, to move the subdial movement in such position)? Thanks, GenTLe

Great job, Aston!!!! What have you done by yourself and what you made others to do on it? Have you some picture of pre-refresh?

Hi Gents, I'm looking forward for a top rep of this sweety: http://www.omegawatches.com/collection/seamaster/planet-ocean-600-m/omega-co-axial-42-mm/23230422101001 I've found 2 of them: http://www.ttw888.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=35_114&products_id=10436 (= original Omega newer version 8500 - 16.5mm thik, with dual color superlume and with display case back) http://www.ttw888.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=35_114&products_id=7063 (= original Omega older version 2500 - 14,5mm thik, single color superlume and fully metal caseback) What do you think about them? Isn't 16,5mm too much? Also, considering it doesn't have original movement, isn't the close back better? On the other side, the newer model has a bezel and a dial that I prefer... Difficult choice... :-/ Thanks, Alex

Writing from Italy (we've € here) and seeing how the world is going (Russians conquering Ossetia, Ukraine, (hiddenly) friendshipping with Germany, tying with China -on a side-; new nazisms/fascisms popping up in Hungary, Greece, France and even UK and a bit here in IT too, plus a huge crisis growing since 2001 and still growing now in barely the whole Europe -on the second side- and USA weak full of debts (nearly all in the hands of China)), we'll be lucky if, within 20 years, our reps will not be paid from us in Ruble or even Yuan...

436NR, looks like your is one of the "low end" models costing around 180US$ and using the seagull 25J (also called ST-25), which beats at 21.6k. Take care not to try to make it look oldish with the various mixtures of rabbit pee etc, because the case of yours is steel, just plated to look like bronze, not like the "high end" one (~500US$) which is fully bronze and with a modded 7750 inside, beating @28.8kbph. Cheers :-) Alex

Only funny value is the Amplitude. A bit too low, it should be around 300°. But if it's like my pam 164 with a7750, it gained like 10 min in the first 2 hours of use (!!!!) and then I regulated again the time, properly pushed the crown and started to run perfectly. Search in google with sentence "Timeograph explained" in order to better understand the values shown in this last pic. Ciao, Alex

Ahahah :-pp If you really knew the MV bikes you should have noticed that the cylinder there is from a 2 stroke engine, so it can't really be from an MV engine: they did 2T engines, when the ownership of the company was still in the hands of Count Domenico Agusta, but all air cooled as we are speaking of 1945 -> ~1970 :-) I know this quite well as the Agusta museum and original factory is like 15km (~9 miles) from where I leave in Italy Put this into Google Maps and you'll get where to look for the glorious MV time: 45.631818, 8.747773 (next there is Agusta Westland Helicopter factory and then Milan Malpensa airport) Actually, there something I've NEVER got out from the USA movies: for whatever reason they practically always double the audio of bikes with crazy engine sounds, so that you see 650cc -40cubic inches- single cylinder 4 stroke bikes making the noise of a 1/8l 2 stroke one... Such a baaaaad feeling... No, that one is from Cagiva, when the 1/8 liter -7.63 cubic inches- in Italy were still "bad beasts", meaning 120/130kg for ~35HP and up to 190km/h (in USA = 264/286lbs and up to 118mph) in the hands of 16yo boys. Then they decided that too many of these boys were killing themselves with those bikes and now we have 1/8 liter s_itty bikes with 4 stroke engines at 15hp that look really like toys :-/// At that point (1992) mine was this one (and the cylinder is a spare one I have around for memories since then) :-)

Storm, a question... From another of your posts, I've read about ToroBravo. They have 2 versions (same price) of upper model: one with no version nr and one named version 2, you can find them in ToroBravo site searching with codes CTCC0001 and CTCC0002 (the forum says i cannot insert links for now...) How is that seller? Can you spot the differences between the 2? There are minor color differences in the dial, but I've seen they are often different based on the light on illuminating the watch... And, moreover, Andrew sells the same "version 2" with a 2824 movement, ToroBravo with the 2836. I read in previous posts that, the difference, is basically the thikness and the fact that the 2836 could have the day function too... But in the same watch, with no day function, what is better between the 2 of them? Thanks! GenTLe

Let's see Storm, most probably this one :-) CAR0196A My basic rules on a rep is: - never go for a gold plated one (it will look s*it after less than a year) - never go for watches with too many complications, because the calibers inside can't be like the original ones, so the watch will look too different from original - never go for watches with fake dials (i.e. fake spring charge indicator) - possibly never go for 21.6 kbph because cheap looks cheap - stay away from asian 7750 with sec @6 (and I cry because I LOVE the IWC portuguese lines...), unless they'll become really reliable

About the watch: it looks really good in my view. The cyclops could be better, but is shaped exactly like the original one (www . panerai . com/en/collections/watch-collection/luminor/42-luminor-marina-automatic-pam00164). It just has a strange reflex inside: it could be made a bit better. I also had to tweak a part: the clip that keeps the crown pressed was not really touching the crown (probably the crown itself has been milled 1mm too deep), therefore it was loose and and opening while wearing the watch. So I removed the "bridge" and accurately filed a bit the surfaces of the bridge that, once mounted back, go against the case. See the 2 red arrows in one of the pictures. That way I reduced (around 1mm) the height of the bridge making the clip to stay close and in proper contact with the crown. About the time keeping: it's ok in my view: around +8s in 24h. It's also VERY silent: you can barely hear the 28.8kbph putting it on the ear; probably the steel of the case and the fact that there is no display case back helps in this. The strap was a bit hard at the beginning but it looks really gorgeous and after I put some seal grease on it it became simply perfect. Last thing: its weight is similar to an original PAM: this model has a 44mm case and it is about 155g, so take care if you have small wrist or don't like heavy watches! In the end I'm VERY happy with it. Looking forward to the next rep, which will probably be this one: www . ttw888 . com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21_335&products_id=8371 (but I'd like to have it with the 2836 like this: www . ttw888 . com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21_335&products_id=9078) PS: sorry for the spaces in the links but I still don't have permissions to post links...

So, looks like it's my turn to post a small review of my very first rep. Actually this isn't the 1st rep, since the very first one I purchased in Istanbul last Jan 2014 during a 4 days vacation, but it was really a mess: I wasn't aware AT ALL about the watch world and I simply went for the look of the watch. After some time I started to get greedy of these objects, and so I discovered it was a kind of a mix between a Calibre de Cartier (the dial), and a Ronde de Cartier (the case) with a pretty ugly strap (ultrafake crocodile) and a cheap movement (one of the 21600bph Miyota clones). Then I get interested, I studied here and there and I decided to try an high end rep from a trusted dealer. So I purchased a PAM00164 (the one you can find on www . ttw888 . com searching for "PN164NLE - Pam 164N SS/LE Blk A7750") ). I know this is not the preferred from purists because of the grey numbers but I liked it A LOT, and also I preferred to avoid complications that on reps are not always good (especially the fakes subdials that I really hate) After some shivers, because at the beginning Andrew gave me the wrong shipping number so i couldn't trace it, I got the right number and the watch arrived (well packed) to me in exactly one week from the payment. So here some pictures (comments will follow in a reply):