PAMman

I certainly don't condone the use of child labour and would hate to think that I was supporting it in any way. However, I do think that I am more likely to be buying the product of exploited workers by purchasing clothes that are manufactured in China, particularly items like T shirts, socks etc which are being sold world-wide under a variety of established brand names.

Very true, my 005G has no discernable AR but I think that it's there nonetheless. However the 116F has an indistinct hue off the AR. The point that I was trying to get across is simply that, AR coating generally results in a gen-like crispness of the dial e.g. the rep Ingy or 3717 but this can't be achieved with rep black PAMs because the dial surface isn't similar to begin with. On the other hand rep white PAMs have a convincing gen-like appearance without any help from an AR crystal.

He posted pics of his fake 000 on Paneristi, together with a c*ck and bull story of how he bought it, probably to cover his ass if he was rumbled, but no-one spotted it at all. However, loads of posts congratulating him on his great catch. Hardly surprising that they got mad when they realised that they had been duped. I can't understand why he tried to pull the same stunt here. When he first posted his 'gen' to start the competition he described it as a 'teaser' so I thought that he expected to be 'called out' straight away. It was only when he declared the competition over and said that he was going to weed out the fakes that I thought that he was going too far. Then he had the brass neck to argue that it was real and that an AD had authenticated it.

I'm not sure about you but I don't really think that there's much to choose between the various crystals, including the gens. I have 2 gens (F & G series), a couple of frankens with genuine dials plus 4 or 5 reps. This gives me a variety of combinations of gen dial & gen crystal / gen dial & rep crystal / rep dial & rep crystal. IMO the biggest difference in appearance arises from the surface texture of the dial itself because, contrary to widely accepted opinion the genuine 'painted dials' (B to G series'L' dials) are not painted but have a thin black sandwich layer of textured ?plastic? with numeral & marker cutouts. It is this surface texture of the dial which contributes more to the elusive gen appearance than the crystal or AR coating. If you have any doubt about this please consider DSN's 010 rep dial. It was the most accurate dial that he ever produced, in terms of font and layout etc (thanks in no small part to one of our members) but it was the similarity of surface texture which made this dial and subsequent watches so convincing, because the white dial PAMs are actually painted unlike the black models. Similarly DSN's 201A dial is fairly convincing, in spite of its inaccuracies, due to the fact that the preV and preA dials were also painted so the surface is reasonably true to the gen. For this reason I don't feel that struggling to match the gen crystal is going to deliver the desired visual effect.

Why doesn't he simply use the regular production cases which are fine, unless he can improve on them? Jimmy Fu got a small run of 200 cases, bezels CGs etc made and they were 1:1 copies of his own 001D. This is the standard that should be expected of anyone who sets themselves up as a niche producer of higher quality replicas. Instead DSN has produced his own quirky interpretation of the Panerai case which isn't remotely correct and it only causes grief for anyone who tries to correct it.

Just out of interest, did any of the 'Risti spot his reps prior to him posting them here and getting called out? Maybe they didn't notice until some of them were also here and spotted the same photos and went back to take another look. We all know that there are a significant number on these rep forums who are also active 'Ristis but that doesn't mean that dual membership should result in pushing reps in front of people who are easily offended by them. Some really dire reps can annoy me, even on this forum, particularly when they being touted as being 'special', so I can understand the reaction from the 'Risti board.

In my experience many of DSN's dials are too large to fit a regular gen or rep case but some of his dials are the correct diameter. However I don't know which cases he uses for the normal diameter dials. An example of this is his latest 201A dial, which is the regular diameter but he is using his own bespoke case which is totally incorrect, with the crown sitting too high in the case. This means the movement and dial are also too high but this is disguised by his use of a crazily high bezel. His 201A case is an awful shape but at least his dial will fit a normal rep case which incidentally is the closest to the correct preV case with its shorter, more rounded lugs. I can also confirm that his Ti case takes his peculiar, larger diameter dial and that again the crown sits too high in the case, but not as bad as the new 201A. He has disguised this error by making his rep Ti CG thicker than it should be, with the section above the lever the same thickness as the lower segment. This means that the arc of the crown above the CG is about right but the arc below the CG is too small. This is very apparent when you are winding the watch as your fingertip can feel as if it is entering the CG at the end of each turn. Additionally the lever closes onto the lower half of the crown rather than the centre, pushing it off line if it's tight fitting. However they are normally very loose fitting, possibly for this reason. His incorrectly proportioned CG cannot be swapped for a regular rep / gen item as the screw holes are wrong and anyhow the correct profile CG would highlight the wrong crown & stem placement issue. Another crazy thing about his Ti case is the thickness of the lug screws

How do you know that you're getting a gen bezel and crystal and how is it available without the gen case? Is this allegedly coming from someone who broke up a J111? My point exactly - unless there is a clear provinence to the bezel & crystal you should not assume that this is what's being offered for sale. How did someone acquire a gen bezel unless they parted out a gen watch and parting the gen case from its bezel makes no sense whatsoever - this needs very careful examination. It is well know that a rep forum member did part out a 111 and offered all the parts for sale on ebay and then later on the forum. However that case & bezel / crystal, complete with all screws, clamps, gaskets etc stayed intact and I now own it, so this is not it. Up until approx 1 1/2 or 2 years ago Panerai did supply parts to a select few non-AD enthusiasts / 'Risti members. This was a service which seems to have been an historic hangover from the ad hoc arrangements of the preV era and was very hush-hush and low-key. It was a facility that the ADs didn't have but that has now stopped. I sure that Uncle Jay will either have had access to this ad hoc facility or had links with those who had. However AFAIK the practice had stopped prior to the J series so it's unlikely that such parts could have come via that route.

Such a bleeding idiot. The 'Ristis really don't have any sense of humour and have low tolerance levels where fakes are involved. Rolex will take legal action but the Rollie collectors simply ignore fakes. I haven't ever heard of Panerai taking any legal action but with such a rabid bunch of fanatics declaring jihad on rep owners they don't need to bother.

Is he banned? Has this anything to do with me 'calling out' his 'gen' 000 that he started off the competion with? I know that he tried to bluster his way out of it but what happened next?

How do you know that you're getting a gen bezel and crystal and how is it available without the gen case? Is this allegedly coming from someone who broke up a J111?

With DSN it's like playing one of those slot machine that you need to get all the same symbols lined up. I have so little interest in his pieces that I don't know which version is which. Can some tell me is the 'old dial' the one with the normal rep 'droopy As' or the corrected, but too tall and skinny font? As far as I'm concerned his 082 caseback is rubbish. It has a faint laser etched finish that in no way resembles the Panerai engraving and the wrong bits are etched instead of polished. The Ti case is fine except it probably still has the wierd crownguard that can't be swapped with something better and the blue dial has a nice finish. Pity that he STILL can't get the font right. Come on everyone - is this anywhere near the standard we expect from the Breitling Heritage / Breitling Steelfish / IWC Ingy / B&R 01 / Omega Seamaster chrono etc etc? You are paying Super Rep prices for WHAT?? Wake up and smell the coffee. As long as people continue to say that DSN's xxx is great he will continue to peddle mediocre tripe. He has the means to get this right and simply lacks the motivation. The greatest motivator is voting with your wallet. Don't forget the $ still is worth real money in China.

Those close-ups of the 118 so perfectly illustrate the sandwich nature of the 'painted' dials. I have a gen 116 and, on the right strap, its a cracker.

Thanks - while I don't normally agree with throwing money at reps unnecessarily I will at least consider this. The strap and movement I already have so I am really just seeking a suitable home for them.

I already have a genuine Omega blue sharkskin for the Seamaster, that I originally intended to put on my 'old-school' Bond but it has the good bracelet, so it will suit the chrono. If I drop in the Swiss ETA complete with gen hands then it should feel close to the real thing. Can the genuine bezel insert be bought on its own, or are only complete bezels available? Is the gen bezel a straight fit?

Thanks for all the responses. This is my next rep.

I bought 3 dials back in those days, (1 black, 1 blue & 1 panda) but then bought a gen Tudor chrono instead. If you're interested send me a PM.

I'm wearing my blue one on a navy canvas Taikonaut strap, which is a proper 24 / 24mm Panerai style strap on a polished preV style buckle. This really sets the blue watch off perfectly and it's so comfortable to wear. IMO this is one of the best reps ever.

Congratulations to you and your wife Kostas, and all the best for your little son. The first 20 years can be a bit hectic but after that it should get back to near normal. Just hang in there. T.

I have a Fortis Flieger and the date changes at 3 am (or 3 pm if you insist) and I really don't mind. As far as I'm concerned tomorrow is the day after I wake up and 'today' is before I go to sleep tonight so 3am suits me fine. If I finish a piece of work late at night on Monday it still gets dated with Monday's date even if it is past midnight. Don't forget the 7750 movements have a slow day / date change with one changing before the other and whole process takes a few hours, so you cannot adjust it to snap over at midnight anyhow.

Just as well you jumped on it, because I would have even though I have a 003 franken. Enjoy it - it should be a cracker. However, how come the sales post has disappeared?

I was briefly on-line yesterday and I saw a post offering a franken PAM 010D, with a genuine dial (or at least I think I did - maybe I just dozed off and dreamt it). What happened to the sales post, because a few minutes later I couldn't find it again? If it

Logo's too big, text's too big, numerals & hour markers too thin, crown's wrong, crownguard's wrong, caseback's poor finish and serial number pre-dates the 005 release. When you add the dodgy quality control etc and the fact that parts are not interchangable with gen / regular reps, and therefore cannot easily be upgraded, for example when V's 1:1 H series CG becomes available it won't fit DSN's case. I cannot fathom why anyone would pay a premium for this.

The caseback seems to be only very lightly laser etched rather than engraved. Looks rather anemic to me.

Yes, this had a great dial. However, the 010 aside the most accurate DSN usually isn't as accurate as normal, regular reps. They are just different and even different dimensionally when the normal rep is actually correct e.g. dial diameter, text fonts, crownguards, caseback engraving etc etc. Take a look at his latest 005 - it has a F series number when the 005 wasn't introduced until the G series. Yeah, they're different and as a result more inaccurate than the usual fare.