PAMman

OK, lets do this. I have talked to Lello about the printing side and that looks to be a runner. After all if his printer can get the numbers accurately lined up on a skinny datewheel then getting a simple Panerai dial printed properly will be a 'penalty kick'. So, don't be too concerned about the printing. If only Davidsen would get the engraving accurate then I don't care how badly his printing is carried out as, providing I can buy a dozen dials from him, I would just strip them and get then finished properly. However the engraving isn't looking too good. The big question....... DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY CONTACT FOR GETTING ENGRAVING CARRIED OUT??? We are talking reasonably simple shapes at a fairly large size but the engraver needs to listen and understand that he shouldn't interpret anything, just copy the quirky lobsided shapes that the 'strange man' wants.....no improvements or smoothing out the curves etc. Can anyone suggest a CNC engraver? I have accurate 1:1 scans of the correct dial and loads of high resolution artwork but just need someone who can engarve simple shapes on brass. Doesn't sound too much but I haven't had any luck locally.

The preV (pre Vendome) watches which include the 5218/201A logo, 202A etc used the original slow-beat 6497 as the base movement, but the first of the Swiss (Vendome), preA watches used the 6497-2 higher-beat movements. However the preA movements were decorated in a style very similar to the cdg decorated 6497-1 which is currently available.

Those teeth are a reflection of the inner edge of the crwon on the polished bezel. The 027A has the same case as all other 44mm models - I have a friend who has one of these. *See the pin in the A series CG - the earlier series aren't as well made or as tight fitting as the later CGs....really no better than a Jimmy Fu CG.

I have 2 gens, a 'G' series 'long arrow' 005 and a 'F' series 116. On the tobacco dial Ti 116 the single internal AR is just noticable as a faint blue/purple hue but the 005 appears not to have any visible trace at all. I don't have any interest in the later sandwich dial watches, preferring the older

I have a genuine preA dial which is the same engraving as the preV dials (check out the Maurits Bollen article on Paneristi: hxxp://www.paneristi.com/archives/PreA_Panerai/Pre_A_Panerai.html). It is now built into a watch but I took a 1:1 scan of it on a flatbed scanner so that could provide the perfect template for the base dial engraving. It may be that we will have to do this ourselves as Davidsen seems to be ignoring all contributions. Lello has indicated that his printer can carry out the printing end and he (Lello) has certainly proved that he is able to produce accurate datewheels, so the printing end should be covered. If we could get the engraving outsourced to a CNC outfit then the project should be within reach. The logo itself is the same as the genuine 195 or 'long arrow' 005 and I can help out there as well with a macro shot of the logo. The correct font is clearly pictured in the 'Risti article and can be 'cut & pasted' into our dial so with a macro shot of the logo we can complete the artwork in Photoshop. Can we make this a 2008 RWG project?? I am fully willing to assist in any possible way to create the ulimate rep dial if we could get our act together on this one.

These are not Jimmy Fu parts. I bought a total of 6 complete case sets (including CGs), a few extra CGs and 9 or 10 dials from Jimmy while they were still available. He only ever had 200 of each part as he originally got his D series 001 replicated with the intention of selling his own limited edition, unbranded watch with the base dial. However, Panerai's successful lawsuit against the RXW put that notion out of his head and he started to sell off the parts on eBay as aftermarket spares. He is a prominent Paneristi and didn't wish to get involved with the rep world but we turned out to be his biggest market although he refused to sell through the boards and he wouldn't give me his contacts to allow me to get more parts manufactured. He simply wanted to get his investment back and forget about the whole thing. His dials were base dials only but they were engraved similar to the genuine A series tritium dials. I have still some which I may try to have reprinted as A series T dials with correct fonts etc. That would be cool.

Get a 001 or 002. These are the same as the 111 & 112 only with a solid caseback and 'painted' dial. The crownguard is the correct shape for these earlier models and the solid back means that the unaltered Swiss 6497 is not seen but is correct functionally anyhow. No contest, these are the best buy.

Thanks Kruzer ........ I think that you should just sell me your gen bezel. OK?

Standard rep with an Asian dagger movement, judging by the shock protection system. Looks like a recessed pin too, as well as a fake standard box etc.

I have a series 1 Ti chrono Avenger and the bezel is slightly loose. It does not sit snugly down onto the case but is raised up by the pressure from the spring underneath. Has anyone else had this problem and found the solution? How is the bezel removed from the case?....I'm wondering if the screws around the edge really are threaded screws and if they hold the bezel in place. I don't want to loosen them if they are purely cosmetic and perform no function at all. Any experience on resolving this issue - I love the watch but would love to get the bezel fitting the same as my Steelfish. I would be prepared to buy a genuine bezel (if I could find one) if it would fit better. All assistance appreciated.

I bought one genuine crown from a US based Panerai dealer and it came in a sealed blister pack with reference numbers on it, but I'm not sure if it looked like the one in the 190172699999 auction picture - I'll check and see if I still have the packing. The crowns on Ebay look very like the sprung crowns fitted to some of the reps, which had coarser / less teeth than some of the unsprung versions.

Point taken.........BUT if it is possible to engrave the markers on the dial at all, it is equally possible to position them correctly. We are only asking that enough care is taken to ensure that someone else won't have to do it all over again. I accept that reproducing the shape of the 6 & 9 may be tricky but PLEASE TRY. It seems to me that, with the exception of dropping the aged printing which was originally proposed, there has been no attempt to respond to the any of the helpful feedback and assistance which Davidsen has been offered. Surely that was the original intention of involving the forum at an early stage or am I missing something?

Thanks for all the replies - I really wanted the Swiss because it's Swiss, it's as simple as that. Maybe the Asian is the way to go as I'll have the standard Swiss as a backup.

PLEASE, PLEASE get the engraving correct first, with the markers and numbers further in from the edge of the dial and the correct shape 6 & 9. Then make the logo with the correct finer / thinner lines and I'll be happy to buy them at that stage without any lume. Kostas is right, they should have very little lume power because the tritium has aged at this stage. I would rather paint the markers with ordinary paint than have superlume on the 5218/201A dial, but PLEASE GET THE ENGRAVING SORTED FIRST BEFORE THIS PROJECT GOES ANY FURTHER.

DSN's watches may look OK at night if you keep the lights turned off. Otherwise the woeful lack of quality and general poor finish will be too evident and the frustration that normal rep or gen parts won't fit will really drive you nuts. I know because I have one and the only redeeming feature is the decorated Swiss 6497 inside and the AR'd crystal. The case, caseback, crown, crownguard, dial and hands are all worse than normal reps. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Can anyone recommend a source for an E series modified Swiss 6497 Panerai movement? I would like to buy one of these to transplant into my Fiddy, which is one of the early E0117/1950 cases with sapphire crystal and good dial. Any ideas of where one of these can be sourced? Thanks.

Would I prefer a rep. over a preowned gen? YES & NO I would prefer a decent quality accurate rep with a good Swiss movement to a mediocre gen - in other words I would prefer a rep ETA Superocean Steelfish to a similarly styled Citizen, Pulsar or comparable watch at the same cost. Absolutely no contest there, and anyone with enough interest to be reading this forum must surely share similar views. However when it comes to considering gens or reps of the same watch the lines become blurred. I have some great fully modded rep Panerais as well as gen Pannies but I would be very picky about which reps would satify me. Reps must be as accurate as possible and therefore only closed caseback models interest me there. A properly modded rep PAM is so close to the gen and at much less cost, so price is a big motivator here and is a reasonable justification for pursuing projects based on preV, preA and A / B series watches, providing they use the original movements (ETA 6497 / 2892A2 / 2893 etc). Genuine sandwich dial models are current, more plentiful and less desirable amongst the 'Risti and should be even less desirable as reps because the display backs put the inaccurate Asian modifed or 100% Asian movements on show. I wouldn't have any interest in a rep 111H for example but then I have little interest in the post D series handwinds anyhow - I have a gen 116F but it is the Tobacco dialled Base which wasn't available in an earlier version and there is no decent rep of this watch. IWC is fairly clear-cut for me. I have a GST Ti modded with a gen dial and Swiss 7750, a 3717 with Swiss 7750 and an Ingy with Lello datewheel and AR. These are excellent quality replicas and cost pennies in comparison to the gens so no problem there. However Omegas are a different matter altogether - I bought a brand new, unworn gen Speedy (warranty card stamped less than 1 month previosly) at 54% of its retail price on Ebay and a similarly unworn, full-size, black, auto SMP at exactly half price, face-to-face from a local seller through a gen forum. The Speedy rep was always inaccurate and the current offering is worse while the rep SMP is variable in accuracy and quality. To answer the question I would prefer gen Omegas to reps because if you buy carefully, this way the cost difference is not too great when you factor in the price of modding the rep, replacing crowns & tubes or whatever. Also buying the gen in new condition at half price is a reasonable investment that can be cashed if needed. The answer?? I would prefer genuine Omegas / TAGs etc on the secondary market, if bought wisely, and would prefer to have sensibly modded reps of specific Panerai or IWC because of both, the cost involved, and the satisfaction that can be derived from creating a really good quality replica of a very desirable costly and fairly rare watch. Compare this: When did you last see anyone wearing a genuine IWC GST / Ingenieur or early model Panerai.......compared to sightings of genuine Omegas or TAGs. I have been thinking this through as I typed it but this will probably result in me off-loading a bunch of both reps and gens....Rep black SMP, black TAG Link chrono, Fiddy, 005, 112, Panny Sub etc etc etc Gen Fortis Flieger and many others. Then I should have some spending power and start at the top of this post again.

I have both a gen and a rep one of these - the rep is a beater, but it is the correct HEV position version with the better CG shape and pinned bracelet. However the photos on Ebay seem to be a gen as the CGs are perfect and the second hand is correct. My rep has a seconds hand wich has a too large luminous marker and its bezel is not correct so unless the Ebay watch is the 'Ultimate SM' the pics aren't of the watch that's for sale.

Please get the position of the hour markers correct - they are too close to the edge of the dial and consequently form a circle of too large diameter. Then, if the printing is positioned correctly in relation to the 11 & 1 hour markers it is too large. Also the logo is too large and the lines are too thick. This image is of an original bare dial but the logo is not properly aligned - it was a propotype of the 5218/201A dial when it was considered aligning the up & down (air & sea) arrows on a vertical axis but it looks lobsided as the 'horizontal' lines are not horizontal.

The dial printing looks fairly good but the engraved indicies are still too close to the dial edge - in other words the diameter of the markers is too big and as a result the printing will also be too big if correctly spaced from the hour markers. Also the logo is slightly too bold or heavy as the lines are slightly thicker than they should be.

Uhr-Kraft produced a diver using the same case as the Zeno 300m Diver, using an ETA movement - basically the same watch with a different dial, with the winder at 4.30. It was a decent quality, basic diver which was good value.

As has already been stated, if you manage to get the crown seated closer to the case the lever will no longer be tight so you will need to either, file down the legs of the crownguard to get it closer to the crown, or, get a new crown guard. It may not only be the stem which is causing the crown to sit out too far as it may be that the crown is seated against the crown tube which protrudes too far out of the case. This would need the tube to be either pushed further into the case or filed down. In order to see whether it's the length of the stem or the tube which is the culprit you should remove the movement from the case and refit the crown / stem unit into the case before you adjust anything. There is a risk of making the overall fit of these parts worse rather than better unless you approach this problem from the correct perspective. A Palp crown may be the best approach because it requires a longer stem than normal and it is thicker, so even when positioned closer to the case your existing lever will still likely be too long rather than too short and if your stem is longer than normal that's an added bonus.

Hi TWP, I would like one of your 036s before you convert them all to 177.

I agree. I reluctantly bought River's springbars because I had a watch with a damaged thread but now I would prefer them to the normal screws.

EXCELLENT me too!!! The datewheel, cyclops and crown are being gathered together for my 027 at this moment and will be heading the same way as soon as you have the capacity The Zigmeister.