BobM

I did take time to walk over today. I visited with the owner. It turns out that replica is FOR SALE. Here is the deal: This is a watch repair shop. They repaired this watch about a year ago. The customer never came back to claim his watch. The repair shop has called several times but no one has come to [pay the bill and] get the watch. They put this watch out on display about 60 days ago. They know it is a replica and they know it is illegal to sell a counterfeit watch. The poor guy just wants to gets paid for his repair work. I asked how much had "had in it". He said $150. I don't believe he really has that much in it even if he were paid full fare for his repair service. Maybe he does. Also, maybe that is why the customer never came back to claim the watch. It is not a watch that I would have on my TO-BUY list but if he still has it by, say, October 1st. I might offer about half what he has on it now. It is a President day-date, and I have a President day-date on order. It might be useful as a backup for parts ... not that I wouldn't wear it from time to time. Since he has no idea from what dealer the watch came from ... and in the context of our conversation, I just didn't feel right asking if I could take a picture. In our conversation the watch shop owner said he had repaierd a couple of other replicas. He commented about the good quality oif the movement in one of the replicas he repaired. So .... now I know I have a watchmaker available who will repair my replicas, even if my regular repair shop should decline. It was a useful visit.

I did take time to walk over today. I visited with the owner. It turns out that replica is FOR SALE. Here is the deal:This is a watch repair shop. They repaired this watch about a year ago. The customer never came back to claim his watch. The repair shop has called several times but no one has come to [pay the bill and] get the watch. They put this watch out on display about 60 days ago. They know it is a replica and they know it is illegal to sell a counterfeit watch. The poor guy just wants to gets paid for his repair work. I asked how much had "had in it". He said $150. I don't believe he really has that much in it even if he were paid full fare for his repair service. Maybe he does. Also, maybe that is why the customer never came back to claim the watch.It is not a watch that I would have on my TO-BUY list but if he still has it by, say, October 1st. I might offer about half what he has on it now. It is a President day-date, and I have a President day-date on order. It might be useful as a backup for parts ... not that I wouldn't wear it from time to time.Since he has no idea from what dealer the watch came from ... and in the context of our conversation, I just didn't feel right asking if I could take a picture.In our conversation the watch shop owner said he had repaierd a couple of other replicas. He commented about the good quality oif the movement in one of the replicas he repaired. So .... now I know I have a watchmaker available who will repair my replicas, even if my regular repair shop should decline. It was a useful visit. I did take time to walk over today. I visited with the owner. It turns out that replica is FOR SALE. Here is the deal:This is a watch repair shop. They repaired this watch about a year ago. The customer never came back to claim his watch. The repair shop has called several times but no one has come to [pay the bill and] get the watch. They put this watch out on display about 60 days ago. They know it is a replica and they know it is illegal to sell a counterfeit watch. The poor guy just wants to gets paid for his repair work. I asked how much had "had in it". He said $150. I don't believe he really has that much in it even if he were paid full fare for his repair service. Maybe he does. Also, maybe that is why the customer never came back to claim the watch.It is not a watch that I would have on my TO-BUY list but if he still has it by, say, October 1st. I might offer about half what he has on it now. It is a President day-date, and I have a President day-date on order. It might be useful as a backup for parts ... not that I wouldn't wear it from time to time.Since he has no idea from what dealer the watch came from ... and in the context of our conversation, I just didn't feel right asking if I could take a picture.In our conversation the watch shop owner said he had repaierd a couple of other replicas. He commented about the good quality oif the movement in one of the replicas he repaired. So .... now I know I have a watchmaker available who will repair my replicas, even if my regular repair shop should decline. It was a useful visit.

I work right across the street from the Galleria Mall, in Houston, TX. The Galleria is one of well known, very high quality shopping malls in America. Sometimes I take a break and stroll over to the mall to browse around. Sometimes I visit the two fine watch stores, just to look at the goodies. The sales folks are always happy to see me, happy to show me their new merchandise, let me handle any of the lovely watches they have. We visit and talk watches. We all have a good time. Today I went over to the mall to make an enquiry about a watch bracelet the I might want to buy for a watch I have yet to purchase for my grandson. Just planning ahead for Christmas. I went to the watch repair and band-and-bracelet shop on the lower level. I looked at bands and bracelets ... asked questions of this helpful saleslady. I thanked her and turned to leave ... as I was walking away, I saw it. "What is that?", I asked, pointing down toward that beauty wrapped around a small display pillow. "That? That's a Rolex ... well, a copy of a Rolex.", she said. "May I see it?" She pulled it out and disengaged it from the display pillow. I handled it. Now, I had been handling the gens in the watch stores. This one felt good! ... It looked good! Rolex Day-Date President, SS, dark blue dial with stick markers, fluted bezel. Hmmmm ... heavy, solid links on the bracelet. All the markings and the looks were right. Very nice! I was impressed with the watch. I couldn't help but mention to her that I had a similar one on order and I could only hope the one I would receive would be as good quality. I also could not help but point out to her that if she would go up one floor and go about five stores to the east, she could see the look-alike of this watch priced there for about $23,000. I was impressed also with the realization that this replica was on display in this high-end mall, for all the world to see. Now, there was absolutely no suggestion that the replica was for sale, ... it was just a "for fun" display ... but the fact that it was on display within spitting distance of two Authorized Dealers stores, in this well respected mall was impressive to me. Wow! What will we see next? That was fun! I went back to work with a big grin on my face.

I know a lot of folks have sneered at this gaudy piece, but Rolex will sell a BUNCH of these!! It is certainly on my reps-to-buy list but I want the gold/white face/blue ceramic bezel ( the one other than Steel that they show on the Rolex web site), and I want mine to work ... all of it ... and be a faithfull replication of the original. How long do you think it will be before we have that available? First of the year? Or when hell freezes over?

Ah, ...What did he say? ... just kidding. Thanks for your post.

Wow! Great information! Thank you, corgi.

As I have observed the discussions here and the presentation of "favorites" ... "most faithful" ... your collections ... I see relativlely few gold watches ... predominantly SS. Why is that? Is there some problem with gold replicas? Is this relationship between gold and silver (SS) just representative of the options in the market of genuine items? Are there some special considerations one should exercise if choosing a gold replica? Or, is my perception of this skewed count incorrect? Maybe this is just a case of preferred style within this community. I do plan the purchase of a gold watch next. Your comments will be very helpful. Thanks.

Thank you! Took me slightly longer than 10 secs, even with the 'cheat sheet' but there it is! And thank you for the lesson in 'searchology'. Maybe I will be able to do a better job next time.

As I read through so many of the earlier posts, I came across one which asked memebrs to share their thoughts about their favorite choices of watches for various uses/roles: daily wear (daily-beaters was the term used), dress, sport, etc. There were, I think, five categories of use identified. There were a number of excellent contributions to that discussion with some mnor consensus developed. I want to find that post again. I can't seem to chase it down. Would anyone care to help, please. If you find it using the search button, if you will tell me for what you searched to find it, that will help me learn how to find things better so as not to have to bother y'all for such trivia. (Just a little 'slow', I guess.) Thank you.

Well, that is why I am so glad to have found y'all. "WIS" ?? Sorry, I don't undersatnd the jargon. I am sure you are correct that the "average Joe" cannot see the difference, but the average Joe surely does want to buy the same high quality product you are able to decern. He just doesn't know how. He is the one who needs help the most. That "average Joe" is me.

Pug, your kindly patience always shows through in your posts! Thanks. " ...the far-eastern work ethic has a lot more drive in our hobby than I'd like." I don't understand, please elaborate.

That I understand. ... a subject for a whole different discussion, but a good point which I will have to take into account . Interesting. and another good point. Thak you. Thank you. This point is one that I will treat later. You do make the excellent point the the deler's role and impact in this 'industry' may be more significant than in more traditional industries. Interesting point. Oh, and as to the 'business plan' thing ... that is just a reflection of the way I think. Hang in there with me, please. That way of thinking - for me - just establishes a framework for further elaboration. Thank you, very much, for you good contribution to this discussion.

Yes, that is pretty much as it does seem to me, in reality. But, as best I can tell, the replica wold is larger than just Josh and Trusty (Not that they are not the ultimate best folks to deal with.) I appreciate you helpful comment. Thanks.

[i woke up in the middle of the night, realizing there are two more elements of quality (specifically of the buying experience) that I have failed to capture: 5. Business practices of the dealer - Warranty, return policy, service, customer support, etc. And, I have heard, some delers make great representatons but, of course, if they don't live up to those representations, they are of no value. 6. Price - Buying a watch at a fair price is all one should ask, I think, The dealer has to be able to make a profit to be motivated to stay in business, to be able to service that buyer and others. But the buyer doesn't want to get "taken" either. Sorting out how much to pay for waht is important in the pursuit of highest quality. Now, I have been accussed of failiing to already find all this information on this forum and be done with it. I have studied the past several months of posting of general discussion, I have processed every posting over the past several months in certain areas of special interest. I do know there is a mountain of great information on this forum, and maybe most of what I am talking about is already out there, in the stacks (I hope so!). And, I acknowledge I surely have not yet learned exactly how to use all of the facilities of this forum effectively (I will learn. And, I have tried out the search button ) But what I am trying to achieve is to collect up some of the mountain of infromation into tidy 'piles' more easuly found by others who may be out there still struggling to find this information, and in the process maybe learn some things. I certainly know only a very little of what the good members of this forum know. I have been studying these issues - hard! - for the past several months. I am hoping to draw on the excellent knowledge and experience of the foks on this forum. I believe my objectives to be useful and productive. I want to be a good contributor to this forum. You may chide me for stupidity. You may scold me for a breach of ettiquette. I can handle that and learn from it. But I am not going away ... unless I am espressly asked to do so ... because I believe the memebrs of this forum have information valuable to me, and I believe - over time - I can make a useful contribution to the forum. Looking forward to your responses. And a GREAT day to you, too, sir!

I have seen quotes from one of our very respected members that "All repilca watches are the same." I don't think so. I am a new kid on the block and I have no right, really, to challenge any member here, but that statement just doesn't ring true and whether it is or not is central to the pursuit of the truth about replica watches. That pursuit of truth about replica watches ... more generally, about replica watches offered across the internet is why I am here. My objective in starting this topic is to provoke a serious discussion about the range of quality level of replicas, the identification of elements of quality in a replica, and how to make the correct decision about a replica watch one might buy. And ... along the way to debunk the terrible cesspool of lies and untruth in which the replica market swims. Let me start this way: What are the elements of quality that one wants to evaluate when selecting a replica watch? I suggest those include at lest these: 1. The movement - A watch is a time piece. The movement is the core of the watch that delivers that functionality. The watch may not have to be accurate to the second over a month, but it needs to keep time reasonably and be of sufficient quality of design and manufacture that it will deliver reasonable time for at least a few years, preferrably decades ... even in a replica. 2. The fidelity of replication - how faithfully does it mimic the appearance and feel of the genuine item from which its appearance is derived. 3. The materials of which it is made - The materials must faithfully emulate the materilas from which the genuine item is made and be of sufficient quality as to maintain that faithful emulation for the life of the replica, which perhaps is not expected to be a long as the lfe of the genuine item. 4. The general quality of manufacture - that pieces go together the way they are supposed to and fit the way they are supposed to and represent a reasonable commitment by the manufacturer to produce the best quality product possible in the context of the manufacturing environment available ... representing a realization that customer satisfaction pays off even in the replicat watch business. These few elements of quality do not seem to me to be so demanding but might provide a basis for discussion. Or, am I expecting too much? Now ... if all replica watches were the same ... identical ... then that would imply that all replica watches are made by one factory. I have seen serious estimates that the world-wide replica watch market totals about 2.6 billion U.S. dollars (or maybe that is only the Rolex watch portion of the replilica market). In any case, the market is estimated to be HUGE! Even if the market were one 10th that estimcated size it would be a $260 million market. Does anybody believe that a market of even that size would be served by ony one supplier? No way! I have no idea how many different replica watch manufacturers there are in the world but it must be in the many dozens or hundreds. If there are two competitors making replicas for this market then replica watches are NOT all the same! The discussion on this forum screams of the differences among replicas. The spectacular article by one our members who visited the Giengzhou (SP?) watch market dramatically tells of so much difference among the watches offered there, implying many different manufacturers, each offering a different product - each of a different quality. This forum seems mainly (almost exclusively) to discuss watches from China. But we know there are at least some watches made elsewhere ... Thailand? I have heard folks say replicas are also made in Taiwan. There are watches which are touted the be Swiss made (yes, I know that is surely a lie), made in Japan, watches using Italian movements, swiss movements, japanese movements, Chinese movements. The point is there is a vast range of replica watches offered, and to choose from - at least, if you believe any of the deafening stream of marketing palaver one encounters once you start looking for a replica watch. When you add to that the minefield of lies and half-truths through which we repliica watch illiterates must naviagate before we can make intelligent choices ... Why, it is just a mightmare! I am so glad to have found this forum where there are knowledgeable and truthfull folks who will standup to tell it like it is. ... But I digress. I hope some will chime in to offer ideas about elements of quality I have not thought of, and offer comments about the variety we novices face, and generally to offer enlightenment to those of us who hunger for your counsel. Later I will try to summarize the discussion from this topic. Then I will split out each element of quality - one at a time - as separate topics "In Search of highest quality - ". I am happy to be a member here. I hope y'aal have a great day!

Those selling what they call "Swiss Grade 1" Rolex replica watches list the movement purported to be used in those watches as a "27-jewel ETA 2892-2". I know there is such a movement as an ETA 2892-2 (also a 2892A2). but I cannot find detail in it. I cannot find it on the ETA site. What I can find about says it is not "27" jewels. I am confused. Some of the sellers report it is actually an an ETA 2836-2 finished by Oris, that it is an Oris 634. The Oris 634 does not appear to be that movement al all! I am relly confused! Is this a ligitmate declaration of the movement used in these watches? By whom is it made? (It is purported to be "Swiss made") Where can I find detail on the movement on the internet? Thanks for helping me resolve this question.