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For 111H there are too many variations out there to comment, so I'll let some of the other members do so. Its also hard for me to comment as both my 111s are highly modded and cost a fair amount but are stunning For Subs and Arktos though, there are only very few out there which are "Ultimates". I believe the general consensus is that the Ultimate 199 is the best out of box PAM submersible around. PureTime has it and I think its below $300. The next best are the Arktos range, the PAM 092 and 186 with the 252 last (due to the engraving on the back being not as good as the gen). I would like to add the PAM 243 in there as well, though its got a few tells, its got amazing presence, and I prefer the fiddy case for subs instead of the luminor case. You can find a review on the 243 in my sig and its fairly cheap, around $230.

Sometimes they pop up at the "thieves market" along Kelantan Lane still. But that's the only main place I know they can be found. Generally though, quality is crap and you're better off from the dealers. Reps in Singapore brick & mortar stores nope. Gens & 2nd hand, a big thriving market, with some interesting exotic gens you'd never have guessed to be here in Singapore appearing.

Hey mate, yeah better. Out of the hospital, but working from home so not fully 100% yet. Was just speaking with seraphe via PMs and we reckon we should have another GTG soon, sometime in the new year?

samurai you're too kind to say that I've fairly well respected. I just hang around thats all But as Samurai mentioned, I've had DSN, River and now Panatime springbars. My River ones fell apart (one side) in about 6months and I got these new Panatime ones, and I feel that they're thicker, better quality spring than the River ones. The DSNs were the worst with very limp springs. I'll try and get a pic of the Panatime vs River springbars. *Update: Top is Panatime, bottome is River

Nice. The dial has pretty fat numbers, great candidate for a relume. You do need to polish that CG though, or get a newer Seadbo (RG term) CG and polish it as its a lot thicker. A new T48 crown would also be better as that crown, the teeth look off. But a great PAM nonetheless, well on the way to great accuracy

Well, from the angle in the photo it kinda looks greenish. So yeah, a relume is in order Then it'll look like this Crown looks decent from the angle, though to be honest, the crown guard is a little too thin.

That's an E/F series PAM. Just need to flatten that CG pin, then polish it and make it inline with the CG top surface. Looks good. Consider a relume too

Update with movement shot With the caseback off, the movement is really quite pretty. Newer style 7750 w/ faux regulator. Must note that the caseback gasket is pretty thick and decent, I greased it and tested it via the hot water beaker test and only places where air bubbled out were the crown guard and bezel as expected.

Now with polished markers, tight CG lever and the buckle has its edges polished too. I think it's an amazing combo

Hey Doc, which strap are you talking about? I've got an ultimate 199 rubber rep strap on deployant (centre 2nd from left) and that is amazingly close to gen in texture and suppleness. The new style strap (on the right) I got on this 243 and the rubber quite plainly sucks. As in the texture and everything is off and its a dust magnet. I don't know if the makers have any like the other rep rubber I have which is pretty damn close to gen. BTW, all arn't mine, these are gen's on risti But as you mentioned, between the two, yes I find the new style strap more form fitting though maybe not better looking, a little rugged. Depending on what you're doing. To add a point that not all rubber straps are created equal I got it off RSM who said it came from an Ultimate watch (guessing Ultimate 199) and I'd be hardpressed to see the difference between this and the OEM considering I've worn it a bunch of times and it aint a dust magnet, similar texture and suppleness

Adding size and lume comparison Casesize & Lume Left to right: PAM243, PAM111E, PAM232I, MM20 Well as you can see, it "looks" smaller than a 111E. The biggest is obviously the MM20 there. However, thickness wise, sorry I wasn't going to remove all my straps for this shot, you can sorta see that the thickess is the MM20, followed by 243, then 111, and lastly, the ever classy 232. Lume Left to right: DSN 232 dial, Gen MM20, 243, Vacc 111 Quick and dirty shot, unlike what I used to do. On charging, its fairly decent I must say, but loses its glow much quicker compared to the others. For eg, I just charged them all, and the others are still glowing, the 243 is dull already.

No worries mate. just one thing, how come you're fixated on the F series 111? Just saw your other thread on casebacks, and if your watch is a sausage dial, it could have just as easily been a E series 111. For that matter, I've got a spare E series caseback now

Top is a G/H-current series CG Bottom is a E-F/G series CG Top is brushed and thick with a curved profile Bottom is fully polished and flat plus thinner Both rep CGs mind you. LH and Angus Ultimate. But fairly close to gen and good enough to illustrate the differences. The G series from my understanding sometimes came with the polished CG and sometimes with the thicker CGs. Could be wrong. Forgot a frontal shot

Another one of my reviews...yes, its getting almost boring now This time its on a PAM 243 that all of you have been talking up so much. This puppy ain't for me but for a friend, which I'm going to borrow and work on for a little bit before handing over. I have never been much of a fan of the submersible range, except for the PAM187, but that is just too damn chunky for normal usage. Anyhow, on to the review. If you've read any of mine, you should know how it goes, just follow the numbers for the flaws Please note, this is a review on the watch available from PWC (great transaction btw and thanks Rob) and the cartel which should be the PAM 243I. There are differences within the 243 range that I'll elaborate further later on. Front 1) Bezel markers, all of them are oversized on the rep. Most obvious ones are the numbered markers. 2) Pearl is close, but too big. Gen has a larger lip around the edge 3) Subdial is glossy at certain angles on the rep. For the gen, most of the pics I've seen show it being matte. This may or may not be wrong as the camera can pick things up differently. 4) All the bezel markers are polished on the gen. Rep have them brushed. 1) Obvious ring around the cyclops whereas the gen it almost blends in 2) Magnification is obviously off. There is some slight magnification but not as strong as the gen. 2.1) Datewheel. Font is too thin on the rep. *Small note, this gen PAM243I is a little weird in that it's got an L Swiss Made L dial. T Swiss Made T dials were made for I and J series 243s. As such, my guess this is a re-dialed 243I. Side-CG 1) Height of the markers are 0.5mm too thick. The gen has them only just pushing up 2) Height of the crystal above the bezel. Again very very slightly above the bezel whereas the gen is almost flush. 3) Lug profile is incorrect on gen. *Take note, gen pic is of a 243J which has the rollerball CG and quick change strap system. This differs from the 243I which did not have it, so our model here is correct. Side-He 1) He font seems mildly different from gen, but not very noticeable. Not many things wrong on this side, just the aforementioned lug profile Back 1) No engraved serial and series number OP 6671 is correct for 243I. This changed to OP 6701 in the J & K series. All other engravings look accurate Strap The strap is the biggest letdown to be honest. Very bad rubber, texture and overall a huge tell for being reppy. I've since put it on a nice distressed locco horse suede strap from Panatime with a spare thick SC skull buckle, much nicer. So now that I've compared it all, what are my thoughts? Considering I am not a PAM Submersible fan, I must say this one actually grows on me. I actually like it and will probably order another one for myself. Yes there are flaws, but like the brushed bezel markers are an easy fix for a modder. The CG is accurate, the pin is flat and polished (though mildly sunken, I'll push it back up), the lever is slightly loose, but not badly, the crown is thick and accurate. The bezel itself is mildly loose, but not badly so. Basically, it just exudes quality in my opinion. Everything fits well, and looks good on the wrist. I've always never liked the Luminor case for the subs, somehow it just felt wrong on the wrist and I've tried my fair share of 24s and 25s. This however, feels rugged yet classy and I'll have no issues wearing this out over the weekend to the marina. And it aint a huge piece like the Fiddy or MM20 which forces people to stare, this is a little more subtle and I think the fiddy case suits the style very well. Overall, an excellent rep, one that with a few mods would be amazingly accurate. For my own personal piece, it'll probably head off to Vacc for a Tritium style relume. Hope you enjoyed this review

Just sharing with our RWG brothers what I posted over at RG. Just a follow-up to this thread of the 111 then & now which showed pictures of my 111E and 111I, I thought I'd just throw together this quick comparison of my 111I versus gens. Oh and apologies on some of the pics, still trying to master shooting against dark backgrounds. Essentially yes, its a Little Hero watch, his latest "L" version ones. Its close, very close to gen, and a real dream to wear, here are the pics and comparisons and as with all my reviews, just follow the numbers; Front 1. P&A in PANERAI are a smidgen too close, we're talking 0.25mm too close sorta distance. A wee tell, but one nonetheless 2. the O is slightly wider and more squashed in the LH LUMINOR No other tells on the dial I can see. Indices color is bang on to be honest, as is the off white printed text (gen is another series). CG is correct shape with sharp cutouts and the crown is nice and thick with right amount of teeth and bevel. Only other tell from front on that is not illustrated is the AR on the crystal. It is horribly strong and blue. The gens have almost no color to the AR tint and its truly amazing. This is the first and only mod this watch is going for, a recoating of the AR. Check out Frogman's review of his LH 111 after the AR was recoated. Stunning *Update* Text Was asked by If you see Kay regarding the "L SWISS MADE L" text. From a distance, they look accurate. But when you come in a little closer, the LH one though at the correct distance from the 6, is mildly longer in the text than the gen. To me, very mild tell cause quite honestly, I've never noticed it till I blew up these two pics. The font and fineness of the print is pretty good as well which makes this a pretty hard tell. But a tell is a tell Side - Crown Guard Can't spot any issues. Great thickness, correct slope, even the CG pin is polished too. Side - Profile 1. May be anlgle of the shots, but the base appears marginally thicker on the LH 111. Angle of the bezel though looks accurate. My 111E has a shallower angle which is incorrect 2. Profile of the lugs is incorrect. The base should a bit thicker with more of a taper. Back - Movement This is where the disappointments begin. 1. The Cotes De Geneve engraving is the biggest tell now. The gen is amazingly fine engraving, whereas the rep, has obvious ridges. Another view of a gen's engraving; 2. The amount of beveled edge on the sunburst wheels are a tad too thick, about 0.5mm too thick 3. The caseback is brushed rather than polished on the LH 111 Lume LH 111I on right, Vacc 111E on left. 1s exposure, 2mins between shots Stunning lume no matter how you look at it. For $1200, this watch is not cheap. When Little Hero has his $800 specials, its a little less painful a bite, and quite honestly, I believe its only worth $800 even with all his mods. That said, its a stunning watch. Its got a gen feel to it. Completely. Nice heft, wears well, hardly any tells. Even the movement is stunning, though any Risti will know its a rep movement. Another thing to add is the little details that go to make this watch just that little bit more gen-life. The lever is very tight when unlocking and when locking back makes the satisfy "click" you get with the gens (I've handled a fair few). It is mildly looser as compared to the gens, but not the "I'm going everywhere" sorta loose either. Add to that is the caseset, its thicker than the normal cartel casesets all over. From thickness, to caseback thickness, lugs etc. Adds to the heft of the watch. Another thing is the crystal height above the bezel, very close to the gens again. Its these small things that just add to the complete aura of this watch. For 20% of the gen price, some might claim its too expensive. I agree its a lot of coin, but that 80% is money in my pocket to do with as I like and rock my life with a watch that's 95% close. For the closest/best PAM, Little Hero is the only way to go. You still have to look for an aftermarket AR service though, the AR is just too damn strong for me.

Update: Many thanks to jot9011 who found a picture of the movement Gen on top, rep below Huge differences here in terms of the movement. But in terms of what little can be seen of the engraving, it seems pretty close.

Many of us here are fans of Ulysse Nardin and were sorely disappointed when the UN MMD Chrono was released instead of the non-chrono version which commands quite a following in the horological world. UN are stylishly designed watches, well known for winning the most chronometer awards as compared to any other brand. The Gen utilises a modified ETA 2892 movement with an additional soprod module adding the power reserve and seconds@6. We shall see how the rep has implemented this unique layout. Also, the Blue surf is a limited edition of 500 pieces. Most of you are familiar with my reviews. Its simple, just follow the numbers between the GEN & REP pictures for the flaws. Front 1) There is an inner bevel missing from the bezel lip. Not very noticeable, but there. 2) 6 o'clocl marker is squashed. And there is a good reason for this. The seconds@6 subdial is off by 1mm. Its not terribly noticeable either, and only with two watches side by side would you notice it, but this has got to do with the difference in movements. Another thing to note is the date fonts is a little too bold as compared to the gen, but I prefer it. Macro - PR and bezel 1) This is going to bug some people. The surf waves on the dial for the gen are brushed, which thus gives them a different hue as compared to the dial when the light hits. The rep does not have this differentiating brushed effect. 2) The surf waves within the bezel are a lot more distinct and less numerous than the gen. On the gen, its a very faint pattern, whereas on the rep, they are imprinted a lot deeper. I personally prefer this as it adds to the whole theme of the watch. Also, the curve of the waves is a lot more pronounced, as is the sharp peak between two waves. As you can see from the series of photos, the PR dial works! And its amazingly accurate as well. Side 1) No real differences between the cases that I can tell. In fact to me, the crown on the rep is finer and sharper. It grips very well and doesn't hurt the skin either. Back Unfortunately I could not find any pictures of the display caseback on the gen. With that said, it is known that all exposed parts of the movement were coated with a blue titanium oxide. The rep obviously doesn't do this except for the rotor, so this is a major tell. Further to me not being able to find more pictures of the gen, I'm just leaving you now with a gallery of my shots of the rep. Here is another flaw that I've found. All metal parts of the metal bracelet are meant to be made from Titanium. However the deployant is very obviously brushed steel from the weight. The two metal pieces though feel as though they are titanium. Just bear this in mind. Wristie The rep comes on a very very long rubber strap that needs to be cut to size, which I've yet to do. So now. What's the verdict? Some here are claiming that for $178, they don't expect an excellant rep. Some reckon that this is not a quality piece, that the flaws outweigh the pros. Well for me, I strongly disagree. This watch has always been a bit of a grail for me. Particularly the maroon MMD. The fact that they've finally managed to rep it, and from the pictures you can see, its an excellant rep. Its got a nice substantial weight, extremely classy design. The lines are sharp and overall its very well made. Yes there are flaws, but what rep doesn't have them? Are they dealbreakers? Far far from it in my book. So yes, I await the many more models that are meant to come, but until then, I am totally enamoured by this lovely piece and humbly suggest anyone still on the fence, to jump off and get it.

I wanted to edit the review but don't seem to be able to, anyhow, here is what you requested; DateWheel 1) Datewheel is not fully centered. Mag on cyclops seems less on the rep Second photo shows issue with uncentered dates for datewheel Hope that helps. coolfire: Geddit!!!

Thanks guys also, first mod done; mentioned by Quick Brick on RG, seems that DSN and a few others have been getting flipped CG pins. i.e. the fatter part should be on top as shown and mentioned above. So you remove the pin, ream the hole out a bit with a round jewellers file and then ram it back in. Something like this eh? Just did it...flipped it, reamed it, rammed it.

So, is this the best out of box Ti rep out there? Everyone even myself has been speaking of this piece for sometime, and its actually been out for several months. Remember, this is straight out of the box review with no mods...yet. Anyhow, I finally acquired one today and here's the review with my tried and tested review style; Front 1) Font is mildly not bold enough on the rep 2) A still has the low bar on the mArinA 3) Bezel on the rep is at the wrong angle, making it appear thinner than it should be 4) CG pin is too thin (bit of sanding should fix this easily) 5) Crown thickness is correct but the bevelling on the edges is too much, almost no bevelling seen on the Gen. 6) The CG lever tip appears a bit too long as compared to the Gen. 7) The position of "PANERAI-Automatic" is too high. The upper level of the PANERAI should be in line with the lower tip of the 4 & 8 o'clock markers. (Not pictured) The CG lever has the new rollerball design, the DSN has the old non-rollerball lever Angle 1) Thickness/height of the bezel. The DSN is noticecably thicker here, almost 1mm thicker 2) Not as apparent in this photo, but the edges are rounded and soft on the DSN, much sharper on the gen for the lugs 3) The depth of the 9 o'clock subdial. The DSN dial is significantly more recessed. Personally I prefer it, but it is a flaw, notice how its shadowed quite prominently Side 1) The 240 uses the new quick release system for strap changing, as such screw-in bars should no longer be used 2) Profile shape of the lugs is incorrect. Gen is slimmer and more acute downward profile 3) CG though very very nice and thick has a flat top, whereas in the Gen you can see a slight curve at the edges 4) As mentioned above, the thickness of the bezel is illustrated here, very prominently thicker **Apologies, couldn't find a nice 240 side profile shot, so I utilised this 279 shot instead. They are the same watch except for the Ti bracelet on the 279 (In fact the 296 is the same too but with the new style Ti bracelet). Back 1) No quick release strap changing system implemented 2) Not really a flaw, but seriously, a PAM 240 with serial number 240??? OP number is correct. Lume From the left: DSN 240, VacLumed 111E, Gen RXW MM20, DSN 232 Franken I would have thought the 240 and 111E would be on par since both are painted on dials and not sandwich dials, but the DSN pigments just can't compare with Tritec as can be seen in the elapsed timeshot. It still is bright and fantastic, much better than Cartel watches though. As to how it compares to the Gen, I'd say pretty close in terms of color since the Gen looks to use pure C3. Conclusion hmmm...at first I thought this was truly an out-of-box king. However, after having it in hand, there were more flaws than I expected, yet on the other hand, it still is an amazing piece. I've listed a bunch of the flaws above, some are minor and will never be noticed, like the depth of the subdial or can be fixed like the CG pin. Others are a bit more prominent like the thickness of the bezel base. Yet here are the pros for this piece to me: 1) Color of the dial is bang-on, went to an AD who had the 279 in the window and the color is amazingly close. 2) CG is nice and thick, a huge improvement over his old CGs and one of the most obvious tells on Ti models. The top down profile is pretty much bang-on and the side profile can be modified to get the curvature. 3) Feels great on the wrist, as in, it really feels very well-made and genuine. It isn't a featherweight even though its a Ti model which I enjoy since I can't stand something too light on my wrist 4) Lume. Its not Tritec, but its close and you can't complain about lume 5) Fonts are accurate from the 12 to the 6 (oh...thats it). You know what I mean, you don't have to worry about the curvature of the 2, or the thickness of the one, or the squishiness of the 6. They are perfect. 6) L SWISS MADE L position bang on and correctly sized. Do note, later models of the 240 do have a different positions L SWISS MADE L, i.e. L swiss 6 made L instead. Those are correct and this is not a flaw on the DSN model Overall for me, I feel this piece is going to be hard to be called out on unless you have another 240/279/296 next to it. There are a number of small flaws, but not enough to kill my enthusiasm for it. Just look how beautiful it is on an Albut6 maroon strap, really compliments that dial; And now for a family shot; From the left: DSN 240, VacLumed 111E, Gen RXW MM20, DSN 232 Franken

I appreciate their incaflex system and how the dial is cushioned and somewhat "seperated" from the case. Quite a neat feeling pressing down on the crystal and seeing the whole thing depress slightly. Not as long and illustrious a watch history as the other brands, but they arn't bad and are getting better.

Different nick on RG & RWI, a lot more prominent in RG I'd be up for this, but which date? I'm away in Bali first week of Aug.

vbarrett: Not sure if its still out, but Stardust was great for me. Enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. American gangster is really slow at the beginning and middle. You can see why people liked it, but for me it was a little too slow. The only really enjoyable part is towards the end between Denzel & Russel. Rest I havent seen, though Lions for Lambs is on my list. TeeJay: You got that right about Transformers and Megan Fox. Just got the DVD last night and rewatched the movie.

CJF2114 BA0594 on mine which is correct for this model.

Take your time Romp. But any initial thoughts on it ? Puretime, any updates of the 177 can be made?