dabom

The 89 has an anthracite dial (at least the real one does)

do you find that tracking numbers appear on the website straight away? Apparently I had an item sent to me on Wednesday, but the tracking number doesn't show anything. Is that normal? thanks.

first - I think The Zigmeister you are an exception, since you can easily mod/service your watches with no cost to yourself. second - those who like to mod as a hobby - you guys don't count either, since it's the MODDING that you find more interesting than the ownership experience. third - let's talk about resale prices. Many people in this hobby justify it by comparing with RRSP prices - and of course if you look at it that way you're getting a bargain in a rep. But have you guys checked out the resale marker (eg. on ebay?). Many fantastic gens can be had for 50-70% off. When you consider that - suddenly spending heaps on mods doesn't become so attractive. Now mind you, I love my Panerai rep because I haven't felt the unbearable urge to buy a gen, and the Swiss movement Panerais are good enough for me (since the Panerai is a simple watch, and you can't really go wrong). I back my Panerai feelings by not spending heaps on them (just lume + service). Obviously if I love the watch so much that I start spending hundreds on mods, maybe I love the brand and actually WANT the genuine thing. And if so, why not just spring for a resale one instead of spending heaps on a rep? Just my thought, but it's interesting to hear everyone's perspective.

I've seen some posts lately about people spending close to or over $1000 on a replica. How much is too much? For me about $500 is the limit including servicing and luming. After that one is getting too close to resale prices of genuines. Sure you may think that $900 is still cheaper than $3000, but honestly I would prefer to pay $3000. The person who spends $900 does so because he desperately wants to get his rep as close as possible to the gen, but after spending that much - it really is still a rep even with genuine crown/dial/date-wheel. It's never going to last several lifetimes, it's never going to be worthy to pass as an heirloom and you're never going to have the kind of perfection that comes from a genuine. And one is not always going to be able to service it easily. That's just my opinion because I use my reps as beaters not as part of my main collection. If I love a watch's design, then nothing short of the real thing is going to do. I buy a rep precisely because I have no interest in buying the gen, or because I am trying it out. For someone who spends close to $1000 or more on a rep - obviously the watch is meaningful enough to the person. So if so - why not get a resale gen and have a perfect watch and a perfect ownership experience? For you - how much is too much to spend on a rep?

in any case, I think the module is too makeshift to bear. Having two gears stacked ontop of each other and freely rubbing against each other is just not acceptable. In the end I still want a well-made watch, not simply one that looks good and runs. I've spent about $900 on two of these plus luming and service - just to get it to run as good as the original (I messed up my first one). That's one third the price of a used genuine. That really made me think about how insane it was to spend so much money on such a crudely made device. Am I going to get the satisfaction of ownership like I will from the real thing that works properly and last forever? No. For now, I think I will just stick to fully 100% Swiss movement and completely avoid all the tacked on modules. These bastardized reps look great on the outside, but that's the problem - you can fall in love with them and just become [censored] off when something goes wrong with them - because they simply AREN'T made to last.

Wow! Looks like TWG Exp2 are better made than Eddie's! Looks like the stem is welded onto the gear.

I'm talking about the makeshift module. They are just unjewelled gears stacked ontop of each other. Over time they will just wear out.

This is how a real Rolex works: 1) Crown pulled to first click: moves hour hand forward or backward 1 hour. Date can move forward AND backward 1 day once the hour hand passes "midnight" (two revolutions of the dial). The date is synchronized to the position of the HOUR hand. 2) crown pulled to second click: all hands move together (along with the GMT hand). This is how the rep works: 1) Crown pulled to first click: moves hour hand forward 1 hour, or the date forward 1 hour. 2) crown pulled to second click: all hands move together (along with GMT hand). Date is linked to the GMT hand position (date will always change at the same GMT time). The crucial difference is that the real Rolex can change date forward and backward, the hour hand can move forward and backward one hour, and the date is linked to the hour hand; whereas for the rep the date is linked to the GMT hand and the hour hand can only move forward. Like you mentioned in your article, it doesn't matter where the hour hand is positioned on the rep, as it has no bearing on when the date changes. The date and hour hand are completely independent of each other. The date is in fact synchronized to the GMT hand, as regardless of how you set the hands - the date will ALWAYS change at the same GMT time. So if you put the GMT hand pointing at the 9 O'clock marker (= 18 GMT marker), the date will ALWAYS change when the GMT hand is pointing at the 9 O'clock marker regardless of where the other hands are. You are right when you say it is bastardized - I think the rep is a classic case of form before function. The rep is only designed to "look" like the real thing, with none of what truly makes the genuine watch an awesome watch to wear. Would you want to drive a car that looks like a Lamborghini, but has the engine of a Lada? Personally I'm through with watches that have this movement!

Hi Rob, thanks for the excellent break-down of this movement (no pun intended). I also set the GMT hand to home time, that's why when I wrote to you I said that the date now changes at 1800 - since you set the GMT hand at 9 O'Clock marker (or 18 on the GMT hand, which = 6pm). When I travel, I set the hour hand to the timezone of the holiday location, so at all times I can see what the time is at home by looking at the GMT hand. Then when I go home I can reset the hour hand back to home time without ever needing to look at another time source. I don't particularly care what the time it is in London, so the GMT hand is never set to Greenwich, it's always set to home time. So whilst I am at home - the GMT hand and hour hand are "synchronized". If the hour hand is pointing at 6 O'clock, the GMT hand is pointing at 6 O'clock or 1800 hours. Since I always have the hour hand synchronized to the GMT hand at home, the date will therefore change over at 6pm (since you set the GMT hand pointing at the 9 marker, or 18 on the GMT bezel).

what goes around comes around.. as they say.

how much are datejusts going for?

No. Buying and owning is not illegal. Only selling, distributing, marketing etc. is illegal. I checked out the law before.

that's interesting that you buy reps of the gens you have. if i had a gen version, i wouldn't be able to stand wearing the rep version since I obviously appreciate the gen enough to buy it. I only buy reps of watches I'm trying out, or never intend to buy gens of.

it's not that i want to show-off, but if I have a nice gen, I want to enjoy it on vacation - I don't want to be a slave to my watch, I want to enjoy it! Having said that, I'm not going to be flaunting it in public. Are those people saying it's unsafe to wear gens in China speaking from a bad experience, or based on hear-say?

thanks for the info! Anywhere else in the world you wouldn't wear a gen?

Okay - here's an interesting question: what watch would you wear to the land of fakes - China? Since fakes are made there, I am assuming that there's heaps around. So what would you wear to avoid looking like you just bought a fake? Does anyone have any experience in China - what do the locals wear? If they wear fakes, how good are they? Would you wear a gen, to avoid looking like you're wearing a fake?

how's the lume on this watch?

* thin crowns * faux functions * cheap looking dials * mineral crystal * mis-aligned anything * bad movements - the only Asian movement that has proven reliable is a serviced Venus 175, probably because it's a handwind to begin with. Basically I want a watch that is unmistakably better quality than a Seiko of the same price. What's the point of buying a cheap quality watch? I want an absolute bargain. I'm constantly surprised how some people here will rave on about watches with absolutely crap movements (like the Asian 7750), or with fake features like non-functioning chronographs or frozen subdial hands. Surely a watch lover must have the most important part (the movement) of a quality that is just as good as the outside? The majority of people in the world don't wear watches, or buy Fossil/Bulova because they don't care what's inside the watch. Surely a watch lover is different because he cares what's on the INSIDE as well? Maybe I'm just out to lunch on this.

Many things made in France have no value except for the brand name. Do you seriously think the French can make things as good as the Chinese? So France naturally has to protect their brand names because that's the only thing that has any value.

Hi Speedy1, does this watch have a spring-loaded crown? Thanks.

Pam1A - the way you tell whether the crown is spring-loaded is to unlock the crown-guard. If you unlock the crown guard, and the crown extends by itself - then it is spring loaded. When you the lock the crown-guard, the crown should press back into the case, and the spring should provide enough tension to the crown-guard so that the crown-guard doesn't come out by itself. Basically it looks cool when the crown-guard is released, and the crown springs out a little. So: is the crown spring-loaded, or is my explanation confusing? thanks.

http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/300...LERY/pam%20087/ does anyone have this watch? Looks incredible! Questions: 1) is the crown spring-loaded? (crosses fingers) 2) what's the dial look like? I am assuming the original was anthracite. I can't see from the pictures how close the rep gets to the original. 3) how's the lume? thanks for the answers. I've been snubbing my nose at reps for some months now because there hasn't been anything exciting until now. Let's hope this is better than I expected.

I would have to agree that the Panda and Domino look much better because on the use of black in the dial, and silver hands, which help avoid the problems with using a "plastic" silver finish, the yellowish gold or the "painted blue" hands.

are you saying that in the flesh, the rep 3714s do not look silvery under any lighting condition or angle, and the subdials do not look a different shade at an angle? That would be extremely strange to me, since I have never in my life seen a picture that could look so consistently different from reality. [by the way: I am not trying to destroy the enjoyment of those owning these nice watches, it's just that we have to be realistic. The reason why we don't see more reps of Langes like the 1815, or more PP reps is because they just look awful. Is the case of a Lange or PP any better than a Rolex? No way! But the expense of a Lange and PP is in the finishing of the dial, hands and case to a level that is virtually impossible to replicate to a nice degree. A sports watch like a Rolex does not focus on such exquisite finishing. Now the 3714 falls in the same category as the Lange and PP. Does the 3714 have a super fantastic case? No - in fact it looks quite plain, and only has 30m water resistance. No - the expense of the 3714 is in the exquisite dial and hands, and at least from the pictures, its obvious that it's extremely difficult to replicate convincingly. Therefore I think it's better for rep makers to concentrate on delicious sports watches which are far easier to replicate]

just like counterfeit money is detected by holding it against certain lighting conditions, the fake IWC can be detected by how the photo looks with a flash or natural lighting. The genuine dial on the other hand, never looks "silvery" in any lighting condition. I've seen pictures too of the replica subdials looking a different colour when shot at an angle. The properties of the plastic (or whatever) dial causes it to reflect differently at different angles and therefore appear a different colour. I found the same thing happened with my PP chrono rep. Here is an example of how the rep's subdials look like a different colour at an angle: If you compare with any picture of the genuine, the different colour doesn't occur. Example: You can see that despite the different angles and lighting conditions of the genuine 3714, at no time does the dial look silvery nor do the subdials look like a different colour. So those who claim that the rep dial is dead-on, are dead-wrong. Personally I would like to see sports watches repped, not high-end dress watches like the 3714. Reps just do not come close to the finery of a watch whose chief expense is in the finery. Sports watches on the other hand are expensive usually because of the case or bracelet (water-resistance, crown design etc.). As we all know cases and bracelets are fairly easy to replicate and the engineering features, we don't see anyway. Sports watches also usually have black dials which are easy to rep. Isn't it better to get a rep that looks good, rather than one that obviously looks fake. I seriously don't understand those who delude themselves into thinking the 3714 is a good rep. The above pictures clearly show it is not (compared with a Rolex Sub, or Panerai for example).