jake48

I am not sure about the crown not being high enough. Look at the pictures side by side. To me it looks like the top of the crown is in the exact same spot (the bottom edge of the bezel teeth) on the Rep as on the Gen. Also, the bottom of the crown in relation to the case seems to be in the same spot as the Gen as well Either way, we are now talking about nano meteres and I really don't see how anyone other than a Rep WIS who has WAY to much time on thier hands would ever know. Also, I tend to agree that they overcame the crown height issue because the SD case is thicker, crystal top to case back, than the other rolie subs and there is no issue with the date mag being moved up or down. If anything, I think the crystal height looks a little low. Then again, this is all speculation becuase untill someone has a watch in hand, we can not know for sure!

One of the things I find most interesting about the new SD being offered by King, Joshua and I am sure the others to follow is the fact that an ETA 2836 was used. I spoke to Angus and he said his watch will come with a 2836 as well. There has been much discussion on how the crown could not possibly be placed in the correct position on a sub unless a ETA 2892 was used. Looking at the pictures on Kings site an Joshua's site you can clearly see the crown has been raised to the correct position and that a 2836 was used. Looks to me that all the speculation about the fact that a 2892 had to be used has proven to be incorrect. How'd dey do dat?

Keyword - "PROTOYPE" Before we all lay Joshua's SD out, bare in mind that the pictures may not even be of the final watch that sees production...

I would wait for Angus' version too. (I have spoke to him and he is really trying hard to come out of the gate swinging hard with a true 1:1 copy). Also, I have spoke to PT @ Precious Time. He too will be coming out with a Super SD - Maybe the cases are all coming from the same source? - Who really knows? One thing I can tell you for sure (as you have mentioned in your post bk) Pictures, the angle pictures are taken at, the difference between the first pictures (usually a prototype) and the actual watch that you end up holding in your hand can be quite different. No amount of micro examining pictures will be able to determine the "Ultimate Champion of the SeaDwellers" We will all have to wait till each respective dealer puts there horse in the race. Until then I congratulate the people who step up and buy their SeaDwellers first so that we can all pick them apart Right now I am putting my money on Angus - but until the race is over, no one can say for sure...

Your eyes are not deceiving you. I saw that too. Right height, finally, but the crystal edge is the wrong shape and has to many beveled angles - it should be one smooth continuous angle. The rest of the watch looks pretty good to me. As far as the insert/pearl goes I have never seen a rep with a good pearl yet -close- but never good. This doesn't bother me because you can always pop the pearl out if the insert is decent and use a Watch Material pearl. The pearl off a Watch material insert is constructed the same as a Gen and side buy side it is very hard, if not impossible to tell the difference. This pearl has a clear protective coat applied over a generous amount of superluminova to make it look just like Gen. but the insert is not good (poor finish and the pearl sits too low on the triangle at 12) Watch Material insert.

Golfman - Beautiful watch. I love the way the polished bezel looks on the limited and the crown looks like it has that nice polished luster that makes it look like a 10 carat rock sitting on the side of the case. I contacted Herr Steinhart and told him I would be in Munich in January and would like to buy a watch. He emailed me back and said to come on by and that he looked forward to meeting me. After seeing your watch it sure is tempting to go ahead and place the order now! That is one fine watch!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly!

Randy - Thanks- When I was looking for a Franck Mueller style watch I found Zeno a few years back. I didn't know they made such a big cased pilot watch- I will look into it.

Dang - computer glich - double post!!

Very nice watches - I am familiar with RGM - the only "real" watch manufacture here in the USA I like the case on the first two watches and it reminds me of a ChronoSwiss. I especially like the blued Swan Neck - nice touch! So what do you think? Who makes the best IWC Big Pilot substitute if you don't want to spend $10,000.00 + Is there a 44mm to 47mm Pilot watch that has a case around 14mm thick that has quality better than the Steinhart for under $1,000.00? I am going to be in Europe in a few months and want to bring back a watch as a reminder of my trip. I have heard very good things about the Azimuth, but it seems people agree that the case looks too thin. I thought about polishing the bezel of the Steinhart and refinishing the case myself to improve the refinement of the watch. This of course does nothing for the dial - is it really that bad? Got any ideas? The Steinhart still seems like it might be the best buy...

I agree with you on that one - but you didn't answer the question - When you compare the prices of the two watches IWC/Steinhart - Do you think the price for the IWC is justified? I don't. And as far as IWC goes as a "Brand" I think it would be a safe bet that if the exact same watch was sold for $10,000.00 - one that had the IWC brand name and the other that had no name on the dial - NO ONE would pay $10,000.00 for a no name dial watch, yet people would plonk down their hard earned cash for the IWC. Is it because the IWC branded watch is such a quality time piece - of course not! It is like most things in the high end scale - brand prestige...

XRT - Good info! I used to go to Watchuseek & TimeZone a lot when I was buying Gens...

XRT - I have personally spoke to people inside Panerai and ChronoSwiss and trust me - they know the quality of the Chinese cases and they have been worrying about it for some time! They know the Swiss and German cases will always be better, but the Chinese cases are getting scary good - especially for the prices! I see tourby's point, but do you really think you are going to spend $450.00 for a watch that is equal in quality to a $10,000.00 - of course not! I wouldn't want to spend $450.00 on a watch that is a pile of junk either, but from what tourby said, I think the Steinhart is no pile of junk and it seems like it is well worth the $450.00. I like that people are looking and talking about IWC Big Pilot alternatives in this thread. I didn't know about the Steinhart version and now I am going to buy one! (unless, of course, someone has another watch that they know about)

tourby - I appreciate your insight and it is always good to hear from someone who has held the watch as opposed to those of us who are only looking at pictures. My thought on the quality of the Steinhart is that if the Steinhart is only as good as a high end China Rep - So what? I have a few friends in the watch industry. They all agree that the Swiss and Germans still make the best cases, however, here is another thing they all agree on - IT WON"T BE LONG UNTIL "Swiss" WATCH MANUFACTURES START USING CASES FROM CHINA!!! They have all told me that whether your are a Swiss powerhouse or a small manufacturer you can not ignore the high detail of the case and quality of the steel being used on the Chinese watch cases. Of course, a Chines watch case will not compare to a high end Swiss case, but their is no doubt that the high quality Chinese cases are really good. My understanding is that some Swiss and German manufactures are already using Chinese parts and it will not be long before some of the more established names in watches start to make entry level watches with Chinese cases. Tradition plays a BIG role in not using these Chinese parts, but the quality of the parts combined with the low cost has become to much to ignore. The other thing I hear from my friends in the industry is "turn around time" The small German and Swiss watch manufacturers are getting squeezed out by the big guns who get priority on cases. There are only a few place one can go to and have a quality German or Swiss case made (unfortunately it is a dieing trade) Because of this, if a watch company's case order is delayed or he has a need for another run of cases it can take several months of waiting and sometimes the watch maker is even told "Sorry, no can do! These problems are why you will start to see Chinese parts on "Swiss" watches (if they are not already there and we just don't know it!) I think you are exactly right when you say the price for the Steinhart is good, but I would be careful in describing the case as "poor" and then saying it is equivalent to a Chines case. There are some d@mn good Chinese cases out there!. Not as good as a $10.000.00 IWC Big Pilot?, sure! But do you really think the IWC Big Pilot case is worth the $9,500.00 more it costs over the Steinhart? I am sorry to hear the lume is of poor quality and I agree that the first thing I would do is install a nice high quality strap, but for the money, I just don't see how you can beat the Steinhart if you are looking for the big 47mm look of the IWC BP!

XRT - Yeah - I like the idea of the German name on the watch. I wanted to bring a watch back and this seems like the best watch for the price. Thank you for getting this post started. Also, I live in So. Cal (Orange County) Are you in the Area?

OK- you guys got me looking more and more at the Steinhart and I will be in M

PM Sent - Thanks

XRT - Very nice watch. Other than the date wheel you have aptly pointed out, I think this is as close to Big Pilot that you can get. Here is another watch I considered: It is the Azimuth Jagdbomber One thing I think you will find when you compare both of these watches to the BP is that they are a little on the thin side. I think the thickness of the BP is one of the things that make it unique. The BP is 15.8mm thick! The Debaufre, like the Azimuth, get the diameter of 47mm right, however, the Azimuth is an anemic 12mm thick and although the Debaufre is much better at 14mm, the 1.8mm of the thicker Big Pilot is quite noticeable on the wrist. If I were to pick, though, I would vote the Debaufre as the best BP replacement - nice watch!

C AR E F U L L Y -! Naw, just kidding. But you don't want to maul the cr@p out of it. After removing the stem & crown, grab the top of the stem as close to the crown as possible with a pair of tiny pliers - (if you have a small jewelers vise or pin vise you could use that) squeeze light enough to keep the stem from spinning, but not so tight that you crush it. With two fingers from your other hand you should be able to unscrew the crown from the stem. Here is a pin vise. They are cheap. You can get one for less than five bucks. Good luck...

The same thing happened to my PO - as andreww pointed out, this is the best fix and works good. Do a search on eta 2836 stem removal, follow the directions, unscrew the crown from the stem and shorten the stem from the crown side. Be careful! File very small amounts off and check it as you go by screwing the crown back on to the stem, installing it back into position and test it for proper clearance. The watch will look as good as it did when you first got it. Just be careful around water...

What she said...

Here's another Davidsen & Savage: Some outdoor shots One in a light box

And then take some really cool pictures of whole thing