EuroTimez

Hi Dan, I am taking over your case. I have seen your new pics and you are correct in this matter. I personally apologize on behalf of my team and if things weren't communicated to you in a satisfying manner. You are correct I reviewed your new pics more carefully (as the one I initially saw was from an angle and was informed that it was abt the TEXT and the TEXT on the dial I coudln't exactly tell if it was cause of the angle that it seemed more exagorated) and I was focusing ONLY on the DIAL printing. I believe and I have spoken to Helina about this (she is relatively new on the return_center) is that your case is totally valid.... the point is that there are quite a few cases which are NOT VALID at all or are clients own-doing, or others... that we have to differiate between. This is not always easy, as we have clients dropping/damaging their watch and or modying it, and or simply bored of it and wanting a refund or deal or other crazy stuff like that. In this case it is a clear misjudgement on the part of HELINA (who is in charge of the return DEPARTEMENT) as she asked me to check it out and see what i think. Well I have spoken to her and told her that this is should be handled differently. So I am again truly sorry and I have spoken to Helina about it, that yours is def a valid case and should have it worked out in your benefit as soon as possible. I have ordered that you should get a replacement ASAP. We can prepare one for you, if you give us some tracking to ship back to us. And or we can send you the nessescary parts to you to make it correct. Or e-mail us if you have a better suggestion. Regarding the QC I have also spoken to the QC department that this shouldn't have slipt and better checks... altho we are talking abt fraction of mm at times (on pictures everything is greatly greatly greatly enlarged). 100 of watches passes throu the QC which is done by human labour thru and with human limitations, meaning I have no idea why this has passed the QC and that is NOT according to our STANDARDS, but there could be many reasons, such as the person wasn't focused, tired, quite busy, alot of watches to QC, or after 9 of 10 the same watch had no problem, you tend to think the next one has no problem as well, it could be any of the reasons. I have made stupid mistakes like this in the past as well, when you get so focused into the details some-times you miss the very obvious ones... trust me. In reality Our QC have passes hundreds watches per months and a small per percentage falls thru the cracks due to human error. There ALOT of cases where we DO catch QC problems before shipping it off. So nonetheless in my opinion it is still one of the best QC out there and your safest bet, and you get to validate it yourself before shipment. So yes there are room for improvement and the QC control isn't done by robots, that is also why we POST PICTURE prior to shipping it off, it so the client can double check it and if there is something THEY believe not to be correct they can ASK us about it... as we will AWAIT your APPROVAL before shipping it off. So in this case in all fairness you were given the pics prior to departure however no mention was made of the points from your side (altho I take full responsiblity) so it could have been solved before it arrived. However what happened happened and it should be corrected via our return departement and orders have been given to send you a new replacement, or other alternatives in your benifit. I believe tho that we have a very secure QC as we at have some QC (done by QC departement 1st round), and then we take pics just in case anything was missed by our QC (so 2nd round of QC), we will await your approval (QC 3rd round) if yes we ship it off. With human error still room for improvement. Nonetheless it is pretty solid, and better than this I believe is hard if AT ALL to get anywhere else. In specif regarding your case. There was a misunderstanding abt two different cases and yours got prob a bit mixed up. One where client were claiming the printing of the TEXT on the dial (dial text were or looked off) but in reality it is camera angles. I received one picture from you and from a different case. The other case was unvalid and from camera-angles and told Helina so, as I made the grid-lining straight on several random pictures, by simply rotating them and draw straight lines. I hope we can work this out in a satsifying manner, if you do have Question send me a PM directly or better to send it to helina she will forward it to me. So let me end this post with again with my apology as owner and ulitmate responsible for the complete Eurotimez Business. This case it should have been handled differently and I hope , We at ET (eurotimez), truly want more than SATISFIED CUSTOMERS and are sincere in getting you the best. Warm regards to you Dan, (please e-mail helina if more Q) Chris

Can you send us pictures, and everything to our return departement so we can start an investigation on our case... With your Customer ID and your ORDER ID, so we can verify. I am traveling in BKK right since the 15th and internet connection is little bit hard to get while I am also with my suppliers here, with Neo and Helina right, we are all together here... now and I just read this post. So let me check into this as if it is as you claimed there must be a explanation for this. Please send it to eurotimezhelina@gmail.com --- she is in charge for all return/after-sale situations...

Hi JMB & Aligoat, thanks for your replies, both of you got it right on... @ JMB, yea like you stated is so true and nicely worded and thanks for the Dial offer btw, that was very nice of you..

Hi Guys, thanks for your input once again. Please don't get me wrong, however You guys have to understand, that what you guys are wanting isn't what the factory wants or cares, it is the same as going to APPLE store and asking them to create a custom Iphone, just because you or maybe 10-100 of you want to have one, and you think it is a cool idea and would benifit their company... do you think they will say... YEA awesome, let's do it! If it were that easy, I would have create the nicest or fixed up the nicest reps for you. The factory like the noobfactory are HUGE, I mean huge, underground and in most cases you don't talk to the big boss, there are only few that we do talk to, but in most cases you talk to their agents (just like in a real company) they will sort out your request etc. Asking for them to create a new dial simply because we want one, is basically a no-no to ask. You can't either request for just dials from them, like I want to have 50 noobdials, altho I have pulled it off in the past. The same counts for lugholes in the V3 case, the factory making them is really huge, it makes OEM parts for LG, APPLE, etc... they make molds for SEIKO, and are are really good and big, don't think they even slightly care of making lugholes bigger, and again I am not in contact with them I am in contact with MBK boss, who is in contact with them. So I can ask MBK he can ask the factory, but also he has to "respect" the factory wishes as MBK told me himself personally, the reason why MBK/MBW product line come up is... because MBK once helped a key-fig back in the day, who was again friend/family to the owner of that factory and hence was more or less a favor for what MBK guy did (he's a really nice guy)... MBK said, that in comparison his mbk/mbw line is a piece of dust in comparison to what they do, so their is no real leverage. I do not know wheter the produce all his products all is just bit and pieces of info puzzeled together, (I know they produced the vintage cases, perhaps also the dials, other parts he might have other connection may i add). Besides that MBK has made already the cases and has perhaps 500 cases in stock, already engraved (this engraving can be sanded off tho) and already with lugholes, so do you guys think it is in his best interest to stir up alot of trouble making holes slightly bigger, and sending cases back to and from the factory, or even changing his design alltogether? We haven't even signed up 30 people yet!! so... please do understand the other side of the cookie... that is why it is not easy to be a good dealer as you are in between factory wants and the clients wants, you need to respect both and come to a mutual (comprimised) agreement. I really want what you want too... but I am talking in terms of realism, the way this game is played... if I were to have my own factory then.... Anyways I think lugholes making them bigger we have to have an RWG member for now on this job, just drill them bigger (ppl can send their cases or I can send the cases to you), it can create a good business oppurtunity for experienced modder... or maybe one of you guys want to work together. About the dial from JMB So what we do, and what others do in these cases, is find a different factory one that makes dials, and ask them to create this dial... with either a pic or a sample (gen/rep) dial, good factories won't do it for under 500 dial orders. We cannot ask the noobfactory to do them, we can use their dial as a base if you want... if you guys think that is a good dial. I think perhaps the NON-COSC would be in favor for most members.... then later if there is enough interest we can make an COSC dial and we can upgrade the overal base watch in time... who knows if there is huge potential members, why not redesign it perfectly... all is possible with time, funding and enough clients... it just have to be worth the while for all involved.. Lets sign up some more people tho...or all will be a nice thought, we CAN DO THIS

About the lugholes, maybe just maybe, I would have to negotiate with MBK but it will be a bit of a far shot... as I need to have a higher pre-order rate... but I will try my utmost best. Maybe he is willing to make 50 cases with a bigger drilled lughole... I will see what i can do, but for now don't count on it. It is a minor sacrifice we have to make to get it 98% perfect... most might not care. And I'm sure there is perhaps somebody (i thought a member named OMEGA) did lughole -redrilling- and didn't ALIGOAT did some lughole drilling in a 16610 noobmariner in the past. I can still remember those posts... so there are ways to have it redrilled... if this is a huge issue. But for the 30 ppl signing up we need to come to a conclusion, because we need to start of with a base-model, but if all different things are a "MUST" and for other another issue is A "MUST"... we won't come to an agreement or at least not at the current rate. Understand we need to keep the cost down so it will be affordable with min investment, like with lugholes, drilling it fraction of mm bigger it will add the overal cost if there is a factory willing to do it (sofar I dont have one that is "willing" to re-drill on a few cases). Chris

@Rosnik 1. I dont think it will fit gen spring bars, as the lughole needs to be slightly bigger that is what I have been writing. 2. yes 3. suppose to, but maybe needs a little sandpaper 4. I dont understand this Q, but we can only put in a ETA movement 2836-2 or maybe a 2824-2 have to see, and I don't know what else needs to get done on that to make it like you want. @ Perry Go read more up the posts, the pic of V3 is right there. @Posthighoeyazmuhudee hahahah, stupid of me, we are talking about a no Date submariner, sorry it was very late... of course we dont need a DW. I was just thinking in my mind all the things needed for a submariner, got confused while talking over the 16610 (as it based on that case). I will open a new thread soon for people to sign up, if all can spread the word on this forum and maybe others get them to sign here in RWG. Then we can get this project rolling. We need approx 22 more people to go...

Hi Perry, Lugholes are already there, and I asked but I dont have connection to a factory that is willing at usuable cost to re-drill. Like stated it's near 98% read the posts above, it's as good as it gets and has advantages as some mentioned using a 16610 case, as parts for these are easier to find. No gabs should be universal standard. Check the pics posted of a V3 euromariner, that is how it going to look like except for the datemag and dial... with 93150 hollow midlink strap. Deposit will be collected when and if we can get 25 more members to sign up. Spread the word... 25 members in the 22k community that we have, should be a piece of cake.

Tkx Redwatch, the Superlumnovia will be another separate project tho, it should easy to do after we completed the complete dial 14060 as we have the design locked down. We need to first secure 29 more buyers We do first only the Base-Model + optionals on request. Do you think we should open a new thread?

Ok, I would like to keep the price low but there are parts that are already been made an thus expensive. For the 1st round I think we should produce a base model not too many fancy things on it. My suggestion. BASE MODEL V3-case with lugholes + 93150 + endlinks (what is the correct nr??) + 14060 dial + mbk crystal (has the smallest etched crown at 6 on the crystal). -------------------- Optional extra's CLARK CRYSTAL installed + 1 piece gasket + 40 usd WATCHMATERIAL PEARL installed on the bezel + 20 usd Superlumnovia dial + hands (will be a separate project after completion - we will discuss this further-, price would be depending on volume-output min 25 buyers +/- 40-50 usd per set) ----------------------- SOURCING AND PRODUCING PARTS min QTY In order to understand what will be done to get this watch made and the pricing. These are min orders from factories which will be an big investment. Like we will produce a complete new dial, that means we need to produce a min of 300-500 dials. For DW we need to produce at least 1000 DW's or I'll try to source a current one like from noobfactory. For hands we can prob get it already in smaller qty. Since we are using existing case from MBK we can buy per 10 or so. For Strap mbk 93150 + endlinks can be bought as well. We need movements, GEN ETA, COPY ETA, DG 4813, DG 2813 (asian movement). We need then to assemble it together, silicon grease it, Quality control it, take pics etc. IMPORTANT NOTE regarding the price The case + straps are the most expensive part. example without movement I sell the case-set(crown, glass, movement holder, case + caseback) at 200 usd the strap is normally being 93150 + endlinks are normally - 65 usd. Movement are also pricey, an COPY ETA is approx 100 usd, GEN ETA - 150 usd. Do note that MBK / MBW are made from higher grade steel, and are produced in Taiwan, not in China and mbk/mbw products are generally already 2x more expensive then chinese counter-part. MBK is known for it's high-end quality/products hence high price. So the base price of this model won't be cheap even if with DG2813 movement. So all in all it's quite an investment. I am willing to take on the project. We need to assemble it as well and put all the parts together as well. PRICE + MIN ORDER I need at least 30 buyers. If we can secure 30 buyers then I would need to take a small deposit of approx 25 usd per buyer. Time is approx 1-2 months to produce the perfect dial (RWG forum will be updated on the process, samples etc) Pre-Order-Price would be if 30 buyers (would go down if we can secure more buyers). GEN ETA - 350 usd COPY ETA - 300 usd DG4813 - 260 usd DG2813 - 235 usd All will of course get pics of their actual watch prior to shipping and QC'd. Price doesn't incl shipping. Price after the pre-order will be + 40-50 usd on top of the pre-order price. I need to know if at this price range it is still interesting enough to do this project. If we can secure more pre-order buyers the pre-order price can drop slightly. Once again I want to keep the price lower than this...but I have to calculate my risk/investment and it needs to be slightly worth my while as well I really want to do this project together with you guys it would be the first of many if we can successfully pull it off. -Eurotimez

Hi, well to create a perfect case I need a gen sample, (pics will do for now, please from all angles etc), I am already in contact with a factory that is willing to make the dial together with me, even superlume is possible (if enough are interested). I think as base we should use the 1:1 case design, V3 euromariner, it does have maybe a few minor flaws but acceptable in my opinion or can be modded afterwards, or if somebody knows some good connection where to make the lugholes bigger then you can send it to him, or maybe we can work together. The base case will be the 1:1 case, so it's alittle expensive as a base as I buy this from the MBW / MBK factory, made from higher grade steel etc. Then we need to swap out the Crystal with a clark crystal without etched rolex crown at 6, so this will be a made-for-gen-aftermarket part, this needs to be installed and ordered and of course will add up to the price (as if i buy whole-sale crystal from factory in china it's much cheaper then I buy aftermarket gen Clark Crystal from USA factory). The lugholes are already in the case, but I think needs to be a fraction of mm bigger, so this I cannot do or at a descent price, so this will be one of the flaw, but I think acceptable. The rehaut is i think slightly deeper, as it's an 16610 case-base... while the 14060 is more shallow. This is modifiable by shaving the rehaut (but I am not going to do this, so have to be after-sale mod) The case dimension is near but not exactly as somebody mentioned the case base a fraction of mm smaller. So I give the rough stuff, if all are acceptable, it will be a 98% perfect rep. So all I do is create the dial and get the case and aftermarket parts together. We add aftermarket made for gen parts, CLARK CRYSTAL + 1 piece crystal holder (like gen), has 1:1 bezel design, thick tube (gen crown will fit this case), aftermarket made for gen -Watchmaterial pearl-, 93150 hollow midlinks + endlinks (what nr ??? ) from MBK MBW factory. We can make this model if there is enough interest in the above specs, in 1. DG2813 2. DG4813 3. COPY ETA 4. GEN ETA (verified and real genuine). We can make the dial in rep-lume, or SUPERLUME, but there needs to be enough interest and it wont be super-cheap either, if we want to use 1:1 case and aftermarket parts and MBK stuff, as is those are already expensive if you just buy it separately. BUt I am sure I can work out a deal if we can get a group-sale organized... If we want to design a real 1:1 14060, I need to borrow somebody GEN 14060... then possibly we can CNC it, but that we need to discuss again... Let us fig out how many are interested if we use existing parts... stated above...

Nice nice watch, I want to buy a ticket too ( but I dont think dealers are aloud to join.... Good luck everyone !!!

Hahah, good topic, I always look and identify what watch it is, but as I dont like to stare too long (dont want to give the wrong impression ) I just see and identify what model it is, not really wheter it is fake or not... usually (altho this is again debatable) I judge the authenticity of the watch + brand + approx price-tag by the person appearance / age... Then I'll think, you think that's a fake? Of course if a cheap rolex is sooo easy to tell, but if it looks gen, usually it is... most ordinary (non-forum) ppl don't have the privilge to get high-end reps, much know much about them. I just take a brief look, chuckle and move on... ahhhh Watches !!!

Also note that sometimes repairing it, may be more costly then completely replacing it... sometimes the dealer will charge little fee sometimes not(at the factory) it might also be faster as in some cases good watchmakers (e.g The Zigmeister) are fully booked. Thanks I'm Pollux for the nice reply, we are def back and I'm here to stay... try to help out the best that I can

Nice one Lani (randy)... great to see you going strong and helping each other out love it here too +2

@all thanks for your wonderful input, greatly appriciated. @ aligoat I dont mind the posistion of the crown either, but like Frank said the rehaut might be sligtly deeper, so Stilty suggested (or was it somebody else, a long time ago) if you file down the Rehaut, then the crown or pin would sit technically higher or fit better into an 2824 movement (might need to change tube / redrill the tube hole)... And the reason why 2836-2 is because it's not as scarce as the 2824-2, 95% of the other non-forum replovers, I dont think they care about having an 2836-2 or an 2824-2, it just need to be a quality movement, and both are in terms of quality the same. (however 2824-2 being scarcer and more expensive). The noobmariner case won't do, because the factories (noobfactory) decided to only make it now with engravings... so non-engraved versions aren't available... Also the feel of the noob and construction doesn't feel right, if compared to an EURO, also the glass is lower, u turn the bezel and it doesn't feel authentic, and there is a big crown etched at 6 oclock which isn't suppose to be there... (as I believe the 14060 doesn't have an etched crown) and even if the etched crown suppose to be sooo tiny, not compared to the noob-etched crown... then you need lugholes etc.. So more disadvantages than advantages in my humble opinion. I do however have approx 50-60 un-engraved noobcases lying around, so if we go for that option... we will only have limited edition pieces