DocBotanus Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Came home late Friday- the watch was here. My heart sank a little when I saw the dial. As I have mentioned in a cross post in the review area, The printing is crisp, and the watch, other than lacking the red triangle at "0" (I prefer this) looks pretty good, except.... The paint at the hour markers is an almost fluorescent yellow- like a 77 Corvette. I was expecting a creamier yellow(looking aged) on metallic markers, or even the soft whitish/green/yellow as in pictures on Josh's site. The lettering and minute ring/markers seem closer in color to a whitish yellow- definitely not a crisp white. The lettering is small and crisp enough that it's hard to say if the large yellow bits are influencing my perception of color. Though he has a good rep for after sales issues,I have not contacted Josh, because I don't want to cry wolf. I've been trying to find photos of vintage Rolex to find out if the hour markers should be gilt and to see if such a color hour marker existed. I have not seen anything other than white (or orange on later military models). It seems that the transition to paint vs paint on metallic markers was somewhere in the 5508 line, but I am confused now. If the coloring is accurate, I can live with it-at least until I crack it open to repaint LOL. I have to say, the coloring makes it seem like a fake to me(which of course it is). Ahhh. One step forward, two back.... BTW, it is still wrapped in the cling wrap it shipped with. This picture is the best I could do, having no macro lens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega007 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Gen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmquark Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I was expecting a creamier yellow(looking aged) on metallic markers, or even the soft whitish/green/yellow as in pictures on Josh's site. The lettering and minute ring/markers seem closer in color to a whitish yellow- definitely not a crisp white. The lettering is small and crisp enough that it's hard to say if the large yellow bits are influencing my perception of color. Though he has a good rep for after sales issues,I have not contacted Josh, because I don't want to cry wolf. I've been trying to find photos of vintage Rolex to find out if the hour markers should be gilt and to see if such a color hour marker existed. I have not seen anything other than white (or orange on later military models). It seems that the transition to paint vs paint on metallic markers was somewhere in the 5508 line, but I am confused now. If the coloring is accurate, I can live with it-at least until I crack it open to repaint LOL. I think the markings should be gilt on a gen - as for complaints, it's hard to say...for me, the question would be if it matches the photos on the dealers site, not if it matches the gen. If you buy something and it's what you ordered then I'd say that's a fair deal. The colour does look different but maybe with the right lighting (or photoshop filters) it could be made to match so really it's down to you. Even if it matched the site pics exactly it's not going to look gen without a little repainting and vintaging so I'd tend to let it go but on the other hand that's a pretty premium price. Flip a coin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Unfortunately, the only way to get a good vintage Sub is to make 1 I know of no pre-assembled reps that do not contain numerous & glaring mistakes (yours is a prime example). Remember, too, that these early Subs had very low-profile (thin) cases & most reps use standard (thicker) Sub cases. You can get a general idea whether it is in the ball park by viewing your watch from the crown side. From this angle, the edges of the crown should extend beyond the top & bottom perimeters of the case (this, however, assumes that your rep was fitted with the correct 6mm crown & not a modern 7mm) (This is a GMT, but the case dimensions relative to the crown are similar to an early Sub) And if you do decide to try to improve the dial, you should also replace both the bezel & bezel insert, as both are wrong for an early Sub. I would also lose the bracelet (if it does not disintegrate in your hands 1st). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I agree with freddy on this- the inexpensive vintage subs definitely leave something to be desired. I looked at the pic on Josh's site and the dial looks better than the one that you got. But at this point, your best bet is going to be to try to tone down the yellow and vintagize the dial- maybe with a brown stain /wash for instance. Losing the pearl would also help, although I doubt you could replace it with a smaller all-acrylic vintage pearl, you might be able to put on a vintage bezel insert with a better all-acrylic pearl. An aged pearl would really look the best. Aging the case would also help- wear off some of the newness. The bracelet doesn't bother me as much as it does freddy, but a Nato or even the new James Bond strap from Corvus Watch Co. would help. Or you could just age the bracelet. Few people really know anything about the early subs, so with some aging, you can probably get by 99.9% of the people- heck, 99% could care less what watch you're wearing anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Unfortunately, the only way to get a good vintage Sub is to make 1 I know of no pre-assembled reps that do not contain numerous & glaring mistakes (yours is a prime example). Remember, too, that these early Subs had very low-profile (thin) cases & most reps use standard (thicker) Sub cases. You can get a general idea whether it is in the ball park by viewing your watch from the crown side. From this angle, the edges of the crown should extend beyond the top & bottom perimeters of the case (this, however, assumes that your rep was fitted with the correct 6mm crown & not a modern 7mm) (This is a GMT, but the case dimensions relative to the crown are similar to an early Sub) And if you do decide to try to improve the dial, you should also replace both the bezel & bezel insert, as both are wrong for an early Sub. I would also lose the bracelet (if it does not disintegrate in your hands 1st). I was just wondering, where did you source the bezel? I've had a look on eBay just to get an idea of prices/availability, but wondered if you had a particular source you had used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I was just wondering, where did you source the bezel? I've had a look on eBay just to get an idea of prices/availability, but wondered if you had a particular source you had used? MY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 MY Ahh, I've had contact with them before, and was very impressed by their responses, so I'll definitely look into getting parts from there when funds allow Thanks for the confirmation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocBotanus Posted July 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I did not expect a rep that would fool an expert (or for that matter the vastly more experienced members of this board)- I was just trying to find something reasonably in line, that would not stand out as a rep. The bezel did not bother me too much- from what I gather, the lettering is not bad, but the bezel on a gen would be coin-edge. I could live with that. What bothers me is the face more than anything -even with my limited experience, it looks "fake" even from 5 feet. I am afraid that even toning down that color will not help. Before I complained to Joshua, I wanted to make sure the color was never a gen color. From all I've looked at. the Subs from that era had either gilt or an off-white( originally brighter white?) markings on the face. ALthough it maybe hard to tell from my picture, I think the lettering seems a bit small as well. The reason I bought this watch was that I felt the pictures on the site looked pretty good(see below), and Josh's good reputation here. PS The bracelet was always on the endangered species list, as I ordered a Corvus "Bond" band at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josevancouver Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Here's a photo of my 5517 which I have spent a bit of time vintagizing: Here's what it looked like when I first bought it from another member: Understand your frustration around getting a rep that screams "fake" because of the markers, etc. I would suggest aging the dial and sourcing some parts to mod it and make it look more authentic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocBotanus Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Thanks to all for the pix and responses- the gens and the vintagized reps are a huge help, as well as the detailed info. I put the watch away to avoid looking at it, as the perspective of a couple days really helps. I looked at it again, and it isn't as bad as I first felt. Exepting the incorrect bezel, a little scuffing would work wonders, but I think the dial is FUBAR. I don't think an aging stain on the dial markers would help(BTW, nicely done josevancouver- and I didn't think it looked too bad before); the yellow is too candy-colored to mute with stain, the way a bright white or an off white can be made darker like in the pix of the genuine articles(thanks Omega 007). Freddy333, the case looks very similar to the one you show- at the edge the case is 6mm, the crown(measured on the teeth) is 6.6 mm. Where would you suggest as source for a coin edge bezel? From the photos here it looks like there was some variation in the Subs' dials - either gilt or painted, but it looks like all used paint on metal hour markers. I've contacted Josh, so I'll let you know what happens. BTW, I just received the Skeet/Urul volume on Vintage Rolex Sports Models, and I can't wait to dive in. You know you're getting old when you look forward to a new watch book like you did your dad bringing home the new Playboy when he stopped at the pharmacy on the way home. Of course I just read it for the cartoons and articles, just like dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Freddy333, the case looks very similar to the one you show- at the edge the case is 6mm, the crown(measured on the teeth) is 6.6 mm. A good, clear pic of the crown side of the case would answer the question. Where would you suggest as source for a coin edge bezel? Click here, but note that these bezels are made to fit gen-sized cases (I have no idea whether it will fit your rep case). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocBotanus Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Well, I've contacted Josh, and he says send it back. He ascribes the difference in appearance to the photo on his site; I am assuming that he is merely a broker for these watches, but he says that his source is the only maker of these dials("this is the only one on the market") has no other options. This is definitely a different dial than the one on site, but I am on the fence what do do-just jump in and start modding or exchange for a different model- or return it and save my money for a higher quality rep? The later models with crown guard are obviously more plentiful, but I kind of had my heart set on a 50's vintage no-guard. So if this is as good as it gets in a budget vintage maybe I should just jump in. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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