Oyster Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 An article I pluck from ++tp://counterfeitchic.com/2007/10/index.php ========== Pssst! Want to buy a watch? According to an article by Liza Casabona in this month's WWD Accessories supplement (not available online), seizures of counterfeit watches are on the rise. So far this year, watches and watch parts account for 10 percent of the goods seized by U.S. customs, following only apparel and footwear, and up from 2 percent for fiscal 2006. And that's not including online sales of "replica watches," or the legally more complex issue of jewelers altering less expensive versions of genuine watches to look like their pricier counterparts by, for example, adding diamonds. (Thus far, the brands are winning their trademark infringement cases, based on the argument that the modified watches are misrepresented as original workmanship and do not carry disclaimers.) Perhaps counterfeit retailers have finally decided to target all the guys hanging around on Canal Street while their female friends are buying fake handbags. And yes, those quotes are from your favorite law prof -- thanks, Liza! P.S. Doubt the trend? There's even a website that reviews replica watches: ========== It seemed that the so called aftermarket parts are big business especially when a logo is involved Franken (gen article with other parts from another gen article) or modified pieces built to pass of as other seemed to be another. So my question now, how do we categorize our so called franken (I believe there should be a better or a more accurate designation compared to the franken we all use)? This is after all the land of frankens (united atleast ) compared to the vast our there. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greystash Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 How about a "Composite Watch"...(you heard it here first ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I like the term 'custom' or 'customized', as that doesn't matter if the parts or watches are rep or gen, simply that the watch has been built by/for the owner's personal requirements (thus encompassing 'intentional fantasy' models, rather than a purchased 'fantasy' model) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyster Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Bring it on guys So far we have two. We can vote later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 the legally more complex issue of jewelers altering less expensive versions of genuine watches to look like their pricier counterparts by, for example, adding diamonds. I don't see the problem with customizing genuine watches. Most all diamond watches that have diamonds added are denoted after market so the consumer knows what hey are buying. I remember a story about a dealer that was arrested and sued for adding aftermarket parts to genuine Rolexes eve after disclosing it. Ridiculous. Next we wont be able to buy or sell modified cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I don't see the problem with customizing genuine watches. Most all diamond watches that have diamonds added are denoted after market so the consumer knows what hey are buying. I remember a story about a dealer that was arrested and sued for adding aftermarket parts to genuine Rolexes eve after disclosing it. Ridiculous. Next we wont be able to buy or sell modified cars. Crazy. I can understand it 'voiding the warranty', but to sue someone over it... Corporate Protectionism gone mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 P.S. Doubt the trend? There's even a website that reviews replica watches: LOL, review is a preety lose word for what they do. "Misslead" would be a better one. Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyster Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Crazy. I can understand it 'voiding the warranty', but to sue someone over it... Corporate Protectionism gone mad Precisely. Unless the said watch is intended to deceive. On another note it reminds me of what Ferrari did with their FXX. You are buying a program, you don't own anything and that simply implies that you can't do anything to the car. But sadly most Swiss Manufacturers are not Ferrari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greystash Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I was also thinking custom, but the thing with this term is it generally refers to something being made to order or as ordered by a customer. I don't think that quite fits. Composite on the other hand simply refers to something that is made from different parts. A more general term but I think it fits better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyster Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 LOL, review is a preety lose word for what they do. "Misslead" would be a better one. Col. LOL +2 Ms. Casabona/author should have done more google, then sign in with RWG, Then.......... Hit the search button I'm pretty sure her article would turn out differently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyster Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Perhaps a hybrid TERM would suffice gentlemen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Precisely. Unless the said watch is intended to deceive. On another note it reminds me of what Ferrari did with their FXX. You are buying a program, you don't own anything and that simply implies that you can't do anything to the car. But sadly most Swiss Manufacturers are not Ferrari Of course, if there's any intent to deceive, then yes, absolutely actionable, but other than that, I think it's taking 'intellectual property rights' a bit too far... Afterall, the person is buying the item permanantly, not renting or leasing it... Crazy... I was also thinking custom, but the thing with this term is it generally refers to something being made to order or as ordered by a customer. I don't think that quite fits. Composite on the other hand simply refers to something that is made from different parts. A more general term but I think it fits better. But surely that's the key 'point' to the definition? For example, take these two project subs of mine... The one on the left, I would definitely agree to fitting the definition of a composite watch, as it is assembled solely from whatever spares I had lying around to make a 'complete watch'. However, it is not really built to my personal specifications/preferences, as I didn't have the option of 'choices' with the parts... However, the watch on the right, although not 100% complete, I would say fits the definition of a custom watch, as (excluding parts to come, and the bleach damage to the insert) it was actually built with the parts I wanted to install, to give the result which I wanted (essentially, I wanted to build a 'sleeper' sub). Even if I was to sell the vintage sub on to someone else, I feel it would retain the custom title, as the manner in which it was built, was to a custom plan, where the NATO Sub, was never really 'built to a plan', just fabricated from the spares which were available If that makes any sense Perhaps a hybrid TERM would suffice gentlemen? Indeed, but what would that term be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utheman Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I like: Likeness Semblance (maybe "semb" for short) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 It's an Aftermarket Upgrade. And yes, you can be sued for modifying someone's trademark and "passing it off" as the genuine article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijor Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 That is a great one TeeJay. It has an excellent sound to it ...compare : "this is a Franken Datejust" TO "this is a custom Datejust" .... I am onboard with this one. I like the term 'custom' or 'customized', as that doesn't matter if the parts or watches are rep or gen, simply that the watch has been built by/for the owner's personal requirements (thus encompassing 'intentional fantasy' models, rather than a purchased 'fantasy' model) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijor Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I think custom also refers to something no longer made up of original parts not just something made to order. A custom watch can be made on spec with the intention being to put it into the inventory for general sale with no specific buyer having ordered it or something like it. Composite is a fine option too. I was also thinking custom, but the thing with this term is it generally refers to something being made to order or as ordered by a customer. I don't think that quite fits. Composite on the other hand simply refers to something that is made from different parts. A more general term but I think it fits better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 How about testament or tribute. Isn't that what we are really doing when we build a franken watch? We are paying homage or tribute to the original design within our own budgets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyster Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) Ok gents, please allow me to summarize on the 16 posts we have at the moment where numerous terms had been suggested. To put it loosely, we are all about in the market where we put in an on the shelf Swiss movement, genuine parts and aftermarket parts to form/build a watch whereby it resemble a genuine article. They "could" be called a :- 1) Composite Watch - Greystash 2) Custom or Customized - Teejay 3) Fantasy - Teejay 4) Semblance or "semb" for short - Wwarren 5) Aftermarket Upgrade - Pugwash 6) Tribute - Redwatch 7) Testament - Redwatch (add/edited) Please help to grow this list Next up, say when we have 10 terms or more, I'm planning to get a poll up so that we'll have an unique term to call ourselves for our beloved hobby Cheers R Edited August 1, 2009 by Oyster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 It's an Aftermarket Upgrade. And yes, you can be sued for modifying someone's trademark and "passing it off" as the genuine article. Absolutely That is a great one TeeJay. It has an excellent sound to it ...compare : "this is a Franken Datejust" TO "this is a custom Datejust" .... I am onboard with this one. I think custom also refers to something no longer made up of original parts not just something made to order. A custom watch can be made on spec with the intention being to put it into the inventory for general sale with no specific buyer having ordered it or something like it. Composite is a fine option too. I think both terms have validity, depending upon the watch in question, or, more specifically, the intent behind it's construction. I think 'composite' is a fine term to describe any built watch which is built of whatever (rep or gen) parts are available to build 'a working watch', with no real intent to final appearance, other than functionality as a time-keeper, where I think 'custom' is a good term to describe a watch which is built out of (rep or gen) parts, with the intent of the watch having a particular (customer/owner chosen, but fantasy) appearance. I think if the builder's intent is to replicate a specific model of watch (as closely as possible), I feel that that's when the watch becomes an homage, as it is intended to look a particular way (regardless of rep or gen parts), but that appearance is being dictated by the original factory design, rather than the builder's own choices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kronos twin Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I like the term composite. I also like the term "modded." The watch has in fact been modified from its original template. Since we already use the term modded to mean "modified to be more like the gen" perhaps we can fuse TeeJay's term and call this "custom mod." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utheman Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I like the term composite. I also like the term "modded." The watch has in fact been modified from its original template. Since we already use the term modded to mean "modified to be more like the gen" perhaps we can fuse TeeJay's term and call this "custom mod." "CUSTOMOD" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utheman Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 "Mutt" ... as opposed to pure or genuine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 One example: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=5th&navby=case&no=9710991cv0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 "I don't see the problem with customizing genuine watches. Most all diamond watches that have diamonds added are denoted after market so the consumer knows what hey are buying. I remember a story about a dealer that was arrested and sued for adding aftermarket parts to genuine Rolexes eve after disclosing it. Ridiculous. Next we wont be able to buy or sell modified cars." Part of the address did not show in my post above. Google this... ROLEX WATCH USA INC VERSUS ROBERT MEECE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastrmindalliance Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 How about simply "Frankenrep" (Franken-Rep, FrankenRep, FR, etc.) in order to distinguish from the term "Franken" quoted by the OP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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