Guest OrenG Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 I've been divided between buying a 116618LN Blue from Josh or Prowatch-Polo. Both seem to be the same watch, they are the same price, and the box set is the same price. However the main difference between the two is Prowatch-Polo's 116618LN Blue uses a 2836-2 while Josh's uses a 2836. So the question is what is the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Probably no difference- It's likely to be the same movement, but with the difference being in how each respective dealer has listed the item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OrenG Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) So who should I choose? Both dealers are respectable, Prowatch-Polo seems to be very kind and will go out of his way to find parts that aren't listed on the site; But Josh has an extensive base of customers who will recommend him. This is really difficult since I'm sure the watches are from the exact same factory; I don't think I can get any of them to budge with the price or the shipping, or for that matter throwing in something extra. Edited September 20, 2009 by OrenG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 For what it's worth, you'll want to ensure that the watch you purchase comes with the movement as advertised; i.e. if you pay for Swiss, be sure you actually get Swiss! But that's something that should be general consideration with any/all dealers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OrenG Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 For what it's worth, you'll want to ensure that the watch you purchase comes with the movement as advertised; i.e. if you pay for Swiss, be sure you actually get Swiss! But that's something that should be general consideration with any/all dealers... Is there some sort of guide? Other then what's written on the movement I wouldn't know how to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OrenG Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Is there some sort of guide? Other then what's written on the movement I wouldn't know how to tell. I was just reading The Zigmeister's glossary of movement and watch terms and came upon this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carl Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Is there some sort of guide? Other then what's written on the movement I wouldn't know how to tell. It will be sliced and diced in a variety of ways. Some of the reputable dealers here don't seem to know much more than you know at this point. You might end up with something like this: Based on my own experience, I'd go with Josh and see what you get. In the unlikely instance you are dissatisfied, you will get a constructive response. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 There's no right answer at this point. You just have to make a decision and go with it. The 2836 and 2836-2 are one and the same. Whether or not you get a Swiss 2836-2, you won't know until you get the watch and at that point you're going to have to have a watchmaker look at it to tell you. You could end up with a clone asian 2836-2 which would be unfortunate if you paid for a Swiss. But is it worth sending the watch back to China and waiting another 1-2 months, probably not, IMO. Just chalk it up to experience. Carl's movement pic is an asian 21j movement (DG2813), but it is marked 2836-2! There's just no telling what the asians will do! But you need to just make a decsion, buy a watch and start enjoying the hobby- in a few months you'll know 10-20 times more than you do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Ditto Alligoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OrenG Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) You will not get a 2892 ETA movement in what you order. You can try fitting one in afterwards...but will likely need to do case modding or change movement holders are something as they are different sized movements so stem alignment in the case becomes an issue. If the watch being considered is sized for a 2836, then you have 2 options: if you get a gen ETA movement...get it serviced when required. If you get an Asian clone...try and get it serviced, or swap it out for a gen ETA movement. The dealers don't really know the differences between ETA and ETA clone. Watchmakers often don't know until they start working on the movements, which is why there's a school of thought that says never pay for gen Swiss ETA because you might get a clone ETA. Pay for Asia (aka clone) ETA and you know that's what you're going to get (as it's a much different movement than the basic A21j)...and is compatible with a swap in of the gen ETA should you order one from more reputable non-Chinese rep manufacturer sources like Ofrei, Somal, or whatever. Is there a guide to the names of rep collectors? Some have official store names and others have nicknames I can't seem to remember. How much would a genuine 2892A2 cost? I saw some sort of kit on the web that included a case and everything. Edited September 22, 2009 by OrenG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Is there a guide to the names of rep collectors? Some have official store names and others have nicknames I can't seem to remember. How much would a genuine 2892A2 cost? I saw some sort of kit on the web that included a case and everything. If you donate some money here and become a supporter, you will have access to the RWG collectors- probably a good idea. http://www.julesborel.com/ Jules Borel lists the 2892-2A for around $165, but you'd have to check to see if the price is still good. ETA is restricting the sale of ebauches (movements) so they are becoming scarce. The asians have copied the 2892-2A, I even saw WM9 putting it in one of his Rolex reps. For right now, your best bet is going to be sticking to a 2836-2 movement. Fitting a 2892 in a rep case would be like a graduate course, not easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 If you donate some money here and become a supporter, you will have access to the RWG collectors- probably a good idea. http://www.julesborel.com/ Jules Borel lists the 2892-2A for around $165, but you'd have to check to see if the price is still good. ETA is restricting the sale of ebauches (movements) so they are becoming scarce. The asians have copied the 2892-2A, I even saw WM9 putting it in one of his Rolex reps. For right now, your best bet is going to be sticking to a 2836-2 movement. Fitting a 2892 in a rep case would be like a graduate course, not easy. agree.. the 2836 is an eta movement..and I don't have problems with them.. if you want to go to top dollar mods.. check out some projects that the "Top" franken members have done.. I would be more concerned with the dial and other parts..ie. crown.. CG... crystal.. Gioarmani Jojo Freddy333 Tribal Ubiquitous I always leave out someone.. but these are most of the Top Dogs.. you do need to be a "Supporter"to enter the trade section like alligoat points out.. it is well worth the 30 usd a year.. AC Lani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OrenG Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Yes it is still $165. I see a lot of other movements though, and if I remember correctly the 2892A2 was listed as one of the best, but not the best. Is there a king of the hill so to speak of ETA movements, or is there just a top tier where a few are considered the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OrenG Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Yes it is still $165. I see a lot of other movements though, and if I remember correctly the 2892A2 was listed as one of the best, but not the best. Is there a king of the hill so to speak of ETA movements, or is there just a top tier where a few are considered the best? Whoops I forgot to check the current price... it's 267.95. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OrenG Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) You will not get a 2892 ETA movement in what you order. You can try fitting one in afterwards...but will likely need to do case modding or change movement holders are something as they are different sized movements so stem alignment in the case becomes an issue. If the watch being considered is sized for a 2836, then you have 2 options: if you get a gen ETA movement...get it serviced when required. If you get an Asian clone...try and get it serviced, or swap it out for a gen ETA movement. The dealers don't really know the differences between ETA and ETA clone. Watchmakers often don't know until they start working on the movements, which is why there's a school of thought that says never pay for gen Swiss ETA because you might get a clone ETA. Pay for Asia (aka clone) ETA and you know that's what you're going to get (as it's a much different movement than the basic A21j)...and is compatible with a swap in of the gen ETA should you order one from more reputable non-Chinese rep manufacturer sources like Ofrei, Somal, or whatever. I was just thinking that I could order the cheaper version with the Asian movement and swap it out for a 2892. I don't see any measurements on the site that sells them, would the diameter of the movement be different then the one supplied? If it's a matter of the movement holder, I'm fairly skilled in Autodesk's line of products, I could draw one up and have it CNC'd which would make for a drop in replacement. Edited September 23, 2009 by OrenG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carl Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Carl's movement pic is an asian 21j movement (DG2813), but it is marked 2836-2! There's just no telling what the asians will do! But you need to just make a decsion, buy a watch and start enjoying the hobby- in a few months you'll know 10-20 times more than you do now. I agree with Alligoat. You have to make a decision and start somewhere. Perfection right out of the starting gate is not likely on RWG. If you need perfection at the start, you will not get it here. But you will get a start here. And you will then be able to come back here and get some help getting to the next step. And as an aside, the pictured movement further explained by Alligoat (correctly of course) keeps better time than my ETA's and I am wearing it right now... Being a retired pensioner of a Swiss company (don't ask) I can say that our best selling Swiss Made product for many years was actually made in our plant in Singapore. Don't assume that you need to get an ETA or clone to get a good timekeeper! Don't let that hold you back. You need to get off the porch if you want to run with the big dogs. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 the only reason one would ask is if one would listen.. take it from the Vets. .. and please just decide on something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 The 2892 is a better movement. The issue on it though is that it is significantly thinner than the 2836/2824 which causes issues with stem alignment. I'm guessing with CNC options, anything is possible but it's a matter of cost effectiveness for one-off production. The movement diameters are the same if I remember right (my reference material is not where I am)...but the thicknesses are around 1mm so then you run into problems of cannon pinion height, datewheel sinking, etc. If you buy an A21J version first, you'll have to cut off the dial feet and get dial dots to glue the dial onto the new movement. You'll have to source a new datewheel as the datewheel on the Asian may not work properly with the ETA...and then you'll need new hands. If you want to go the Asian route first...best start with at least the Asian ETA clone, then at least datewheel and hands are fine...and odds are good the movement will be fine too. If it craps out, just get it fixed or get a gen 2836 and plop it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Gotta let this go Toad.. looks like it's going to be a manic decision .. I thought this was about the Blue Sub.. it's gone to the Noob Pro Hunter on the shout box.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I actually find it kind of entertaining...I feel for the guy...I really do. Trying to make the best decision...but treating it like the FINAL decision. I came here looking for 1 watch how long ago? Now I just got 4 more this week?? The last one was my last rep...really it was...only because I missed out on the Patinga's Ebel 1911 Discovery sale 2 minutes ago. At least he is reading the material about movements and stuff...but trying to answer the questions of modding waaay too early in the rep experience process, instead of not reading and expecting members to do his research for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I actually find it kind of entertaining...I feel for the guy...I really do. Trying to make the best decision...but treating it like the FINAL decision. I came here looking for 1 watch how long ago? Now I just got 4 more this week?? The last one was my last rep...really it was...only because I missed out on the Patinga's Ebel 1911 Discovery sale 2 minutes ago. At least he is reading the material about movements and stuff...but trying to answer the questions of modding waaay too early in the rep experience process, instead of not reading and expecting members to do his research for him. I am in no way an expert in modding... but ... yeah.. you kinda gotta 'evolve" naturally in this hobby with reps.. it's more rewarding besides.. I guess Oren you fit right in the OCD club.. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now