Movement swap.

[mastrmindalliance]

Hi, ok so I have my second rep on the way and I've bought some tools and need to fix my first rep, the n00bmariner.

It's only a few weeks old, but has a few problems I'd like to fix. I had bought some tools just to take it apart to fix the crystal (it's uneven - lower on one side), but now the second hand has stopped ticking so I've bought a dg4813 to replace the dg2813 and Bergon presto tool and will attempt a movement swap.

I've only been able to find this series of vids on youtube

I'm sure there must be something here but have searched and manually browsed and haven't found anything specific except for pulldown.

Can anyone recommend some good (noobfriendly *EDIT - actually doesn't have to be noobfriendly*) tutes/ links etc please?

Naturally I realise now I should have gone with a better movement in the first place so the one I have coming is an ETA.

Thanks in advance and apologies if there's something obvious I'm missing.

[Migge]

There is a great tutorial made by a guy called Ajoesmith on a movement swap similar to what you are attempting.

I dont know if he has posted that on this site, but he has the tutorial sticked on his section over @ repgeek.

Good luck!

Cheers

Mike

[mastrmindalliance]

There is a great tutorial made by a guy called Ajoesmith on a movement swap similar to what you are attempting.

I dont know if he has posted that on this site, but he has the tutorial sticked on his section over @ repgeek.

Good luck!

Cheers

Mike

Thanks Mike. I figure I will actually need a little luck. I've spoken to ajoesmith and they are in fact his videos^^ at youtube.

Interestingly, ajoesmith lives only an hours drive from me and I've asked if he'll fix it for me if I stuff it up. Though I'd really like to learn how to do it myself.

His video/tutorial is great but it's the datewheel sticky tape thing that bothers me, and wondered if there's a preferable way...?

[Toadtorrent]

Hmmmm...can't imagine what you're talking about..hmmmm...

Look at the link in my sig for the guides (sorry for the obscure title) it's the Mother of all Guides).

[mastrmindalliance]

Thanks Toad, that's perfect! You're a legend!

[jmb]

I have been trying to install a DG4813 for about a month and finally have given up on finding the correct 4813. The swap needs a "high cannon pinion" version of the movement which, according to ofrei, apparently no longer exists. ajoesmith says he has no more of the correct movement and his supply has "dried up" so I guess we're all screwed as far as a cheap high-beat alternative is concerned. My noob ran for about 2 days before having problems (stopping randomly) and I've resigned myself to putting in a 2813 as even that is an "upgrade" from the noob movement.

Good luck and if you find a source for the "high pinion" 4813 let me know!

Best regards,

Justin B.

Edited September 25, 2009 by jmb

[FxrAndy]

Your best option would be to go for a myota 8215 movement rather than a 2813, same design just alot better

[Toadtorrent]

Your best option would be to go for a myota 8215 movement rather than a 2813, same design just alot better

Hi Andy. Can you swap over the datewheels or do you need to do an overlay transfer going from a 2813 to a Miyota 8215? Is there any cannon pinion variance that you are aware of?

Thanks!

[P4GTR]

Is the myota 8215 a high beat?

[FxrAndy]

No 21600 but very reliable and well made, it is the same as you would get in a citizen auto costing a few hundred $

[P4GTR]

Thanks Andy. Are there any high beat movements that are direct swaps anymore?

[jmb]

Andy, are the hands a direct swap between the a21j and the 8215?

Edited September 26, 2009 by jmb

[mastrmindalliance]

Oops, in my nubbery haste, I didn't realise there was more than one. Can anyone tell me from these pics if this is the right one?:

Movement Hi-res

[Dudemeister]

Oops, in my nubbery haste, I didn't realise there was more than one. Can anyone tell me from these pics if this is the right one?:

Movement Hi-res

Looks exactly like the ones I bought from Ofrei, except mine came in the plastic round yellow half shell boxes.

[jmb]

As I progress through the Timezone classes I may attempt to swap the high pinion pieces over from the 2813 as I've been told they should fit. We'll see...

[mastrmindalliance]

Looks exactly like the ones I bought from Ofrei, except mine came in the plastic round yellow half shell boxes.

Well if it turns out to be the correct one, then we still have a source (not that they're highly sought after).

Guy had a handful and I paid 33AUD which is 29USD.

[jmb]

Please let me/us know as I need a couple of them and it would actually be cheaper than taking a $25 movement and cannibalizing a $15 movement to get it to work. I'm thinking that the low pinion might work in any case where you don't have a datewheel overlay to jack with. If the spacer that comes with movement is used then the overlayed datewheel rubs on the back of the dial and doesn't advance, conversely if the thicker spacer is used the wheel clears but the hour hand will not attach! At least that's the problem I've ran into with the two I got (one from Cousins and one from ofrei) when I've tried to stuff them into the noob...

[mastrmindalliance]

No probs, but i guess we really need an expert on the movements to weigh in so I know it's the correct (or requisite) pinion needed.

[jmb]

I can measure the "bad" one so if you get one that is taller it should be the "good" one. ofrei just flat told me that the DG4813 was not available in high pinion version. I put in my order notes that I needed the high one but that didn't stop them from sending me whatever they had and only let me in on this "secret" in a follow-up e-mail.

[Dudemeister]

I live in San Francisco, which is just across the bay from Oakland, where Otto Frei is located. When I went there a couple of weeks back and bought the DG4813, I started talking to one of their guys about the long version stem/cannon of the 4813. He showed me the catalog and the specs of the DG4813. There seems to be only one "official" DG4813.

According to the Ofrei guy, if someone is selling a version with a longer cannon, it's a home grown modification, it's not the standard off the shelf version. He also said that many times the Chinese factories that churn out the replicas will use an existing movement and make slight modifications to match it to a particular replica.

So more than likely the long cannon versions were specially modified to fit a particular case/replica, and a few bare movements found their way in the channel, but if you're going to try and source a "official" DG4813 from regular channels/dealers, it will come with the short cannon.

[jmb]

Dudemeister, that makes sense, then, why we can't seem to find any!

Mastermind, my depth mic is in my toolbox at work so I used my wobbly caliper (not real exact) and got a measurement that averaged around .054" from end of minutes pinion to the date wheel plate. So, I would say if you measure .020" or more greater than that it very well might work...

[mastrmindalliance]

Dudemeister, that makes sense, then, why we can't seem to find any!

Mastermind, my depth mic is in my toolbox at work so I used my wobbly caliper (not real exact) and got a measurement that averaged around .054" from end of minutes pinion to the date wheel plate. So, I would say if you measure .020" or more greater than that it very well might work...

I will check it out.

[FxrAndy]

Andy, are the hands a direct swap between the a21j and the 8215?

Yep i have done it a few times, the dial feet are also the same from what i have found

[FxrAndy]

One point to think about when you change the pinions over is the lenth of the seconds pinion, as that will have to be longer also.

[P4GTR]

My heads spinning.

Basically, there's no high-beat mvmt that can be purchased and directly swapped out for the 21j mvmts in the reps anymore? You have to canibalize pinions from one movement and another?

Even a direct swap was pushing the envelope of my current skills.