Here's another one...

[JoJo35]

buyer beware...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Vintage-1680-Red-Submariner-w-Punched-Paper-Box_W0QQitemZ180447744523QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item2a0386120b

[trailboss]

Tells JoJo?

Col.

[alligoat]

The dial is killing me, replacement case?, couldn't read the bracelet #'s, gen movement.

The key to building a good franken is in the dial. Trying to sell it on ebay is a crime!

[panerai153]

It's pretty clever how these sellers position the watches so you really can't get a good look at the dial, for a noob, it wouldn't matter because it looks pretty good, and all the paperwork would make it a lot more credible.

IS this a genuine movement? Or a super clone? I would like to see the date wheel that might tell some tales.

From what I can see, the insert appears to be incorrect. The bezel pearl is too large. Also the certificate is not the correct one for the early 1970

[gplracer]

I would guess not a correct crown but the thing I really noticed was the size of the red word "submariner". It is too large.

[nick1972]

Fake case and dial

[panerai153]

Is this a yuki type case, or MBW ? I'm looking at a photo and drawings in "Vintage Rolex Sports Models", and the case back looks different. Also in profile it looks like the genuine Crown placement is higher, almost in a line with the widest edge of the bezel. In this watch, there is a noticable space between the edge of the bezel and the top of the crown.

It's very hard for me to tell from photos that may be off center, canted and not top quality.

Here is the real dilemma as far asI'm concerned, How difficult is it going to be to fool 99% of the buying public, when the 1% who are fairly knowledgable about watches have a difficult time telling the fakes from the genuine.

Ebay hasn't made it any easier either, and the scammers know it. Thye know that unless Ebay takes their auction down, it's gonna get sold! Ther is no way to warn bidders that the watch is a fake or is really questionable.Ebay in their misplaced desire to "protect" bidders, has played right into the hands of the scammers and crooks, with their coded bidder system.

Another reason to "buy the seller first then the watch"

Here is another thing that is odd. To me odd= Red Flag= caution. This seller sold another Red Sub a few weeks back for over 9k. He is also buying a lot of Rolex stuff, Genuine bracelets guarantee papers, boxes, Etc. So what do you think this cat is doing? Maybe buying genuine movements, or buying watches from pawn shops, etc. gutting them, for the movement, putting the movement in a replacement case i.e. yuki, aftermarket dial,hands,maybe a genuine crown/tube. bezel insert, bracelet. Scanning and printing the papers on similar stock, punching the serial number into the top of the replacement paper. packing it all in a vintage box with all the other stuff,anchor, booklet, red seal, swimpruf and selling it on Ebay for at least twice what he has in the watch. I've seen folks here talking about putting one together for around 3k, so add a genuine bracelet, box and all the paperwork, you still haven't got 4k invested. Sell it for 8-9 k and you double your money.

Another big scam, and the buyer thinks he has the real thing until he sends it to Rolex in a couple of years for service and they tell him the sad news. By that time it's waaaaaaay to late to do anything. He's got a nice franken at twice the price!these are despicable scammers at their worst.

Just my Dos centavos

Arthur

[JoJo35]

FYI: "Vintage Rolex Sports Models" is probably the most incorrect book out there, and is better off lining the cat litter box than authenticating gens.

[panerai153]

@jojo,

Glad to know that. I was just using the photos, not their historical info. What would you recommend as good reference books on vintage Rolex sports models?

Thanks

Arthur

[Shundi]

Fake case and dial gen movement though...

[gplracer]

FYI: "Vintage Rolex Sports Models" is probably the most incorrect book out there, and is better off lining the cat litter box than authenticating gens.

Nice! lol

[alligoat]

Yesterday this watch was discussed on VRF, Another Bogus Red Dial Sub

The fake dial w/ the upturned m in 200m and Submariner printing too big, recase/fake case and the papers are also questionable.

[gplracer]

You mean I actually guessed correctly when I said the red word "submariner" was too large?

[alligoat]

Yep, B, that's one sure tell. Also, the 660ft=200m can be too large, like on MBW red sub dials. And don't forget to look for the turned up m on 200m (it's not on old MBW dials).

Decent red subs are going for $9K + these days!

[redwatch]

Are you guys sure its a gen movement? The two off color gears look more reddish like the new 3135 clone movement to me. Most of the gen movements have a more purplish color to those gears.

Thoughts?

[alligoat]

The movements fine. The 1570 (1575) hasn't been copied to my knowledge and it's too easy to take one out of a 1500 Date or 1600 DJ for $1000+.

[craigb]

is it me, look at the second from lat pic. it will show the watch side on along with the bracelet. on the left side of the bracelet, 3rd link in. it looks to large and dont run smooth with the second link.

[gplracer]

Good Eye! It looks like another inconsistency. There is something up with that side of the bracelet. Obviously some parts from another bracelet were put in for some reason.

[panerai153]

The bracelet looks to me like they took several links out and ended up with too much size difference between the links. With a tapered bracelet, If you take a couple of links out then the taper will not be consistent. i'm sitting here looking at a 93150 bracelet, and if you take out two links and then re attach to the link that is permanently attached to the clasp, you will not get a smooth transition.1st link is 15.67 2nd is 16.07 3rd is 17.09 so if you take out the second link the transition is from 15.67 to 17.09 right together. you can look at the links on your oyster bracelet and see what I'm talking about. More than likely, if the watch is a replica, the bracelet is as well.

What i would like to see would be the end links and the bracelet ends and endlinks from the side to see if a genuine springbar would go through and if it does do the end links andlast beracelet link look like they have been drilled out or pried open to allow a genuine spring bar to go through. All of the rep bracelets thus far that I have seen will

not accept a genuine Rolex size springbar, as it (springbar) is too big.

Just my Dos centavos

Arthur

[craigb]

yeah your right, i just feel for the poor person who has just paid 8k for it.

[hiker01]

Ya ol voted yet?

[cht]

Yeah, scamming scumbag.

Stupid ebayers though, they should have checked his feedback.

here's the bracelet that sold with it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280423371074

here's the stupid Full year gaurantee papper work he bought to duplicate

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320461848255

here's his translation book

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260516763930

here's the box he bought for it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150376028259

I can't beleive ebay let's this crap go on, and I can't believe the fools and their money.

I ALWAYS check feedback when buying something, let alone an $8k watch.

A quick peak at the feedback shows you he's a scamming piece of crap.

http://www.rwgforum.com/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=143&t=109722&qpid=770780

and here's the other 1680 he sold a month ago.

Notice any similarities?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180428290304

[slied013]

How many did he have?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180428290304

[cht]

Just chatted with the buyer who bought the first $9k watch.

He reported him to ebay and paypal, but nothing has happened yet.