Super Avenger Black Steel~Perfect clones

[lanikai]

From the Noob Factory and Perfect Clones~

The Super Avenger Black Steel

Before I get into the review there are a few issues I would like to address beforehand.. I named Perfect Clones, for the simple reason that Joshua is the "Senior" member of the "Factory dealers", some say the "Cartel", and has worked on this project.. as the Senior Member Joshua works with the Makers to produce some of the reps that are introduced into the Rep World.. and others have a hand also.. Andrew ~ Trusty.. King watch...these are the dealers that source the genuine models for the Makers to replicate, all dealers enjoy the sales after a short grace period.. some have world wide distribution and other dealers buy the rep for sale from the factory dealers.. there are many other variables.. so before anyone yells.. "Favoritism".. you all are free to choose which dealer you purchase your rep from.. I am giving credit where it is due.. "Period".. the choice is yours to make... I also purchase my own rep for review.. and do this like many others.. for the community that I am a part of.. "Period"..

So on to the Review..

I could not get a definitive answer to the question of PVD or DLC.. as I was told the Super Avenger (which I will refer to as the SABS) finish was very different from the Skyland BS and the finish does affect the colour somewhat.. and the maker did what was needed to replicate the finish and colour to the genuine... and after viewing the genuine I was surprised to find the finish and colour are very different from the Skyland BS..

the Skyland BS was not heavily brushed and is more 'flat' in is texture.. where as the SABS has a heavier brushed finish and has more sheen, depending on the lighting..

In researching gen fora's for an answer I came upon this interesting explanation of the SABS finish that gives it it's unique colour .. so as my dealer was a little confused over what the maker actually did to the coating.. they listed it as PVD.. but it was explained to me that it is not strict PVD nor DLC.. this may explain how they arrived at replicating the coating on the SBS.. since the rep is not black; in certain lighting it is actually light ~ to dark grey, unlike straight PVD which is more black.. the coating on the SABS is certainly not Black .. which leads me to believe that like the description below the Carbon nitrate was deposited on the metal via the PVD method..(the treatment for PVD.. but the Carbon nitride was deposited onto the metal.

Now, this is the only explanation I could find for the unusual colour and shine..as different compounds can alter the colour of the metal as describe below... Interesting theory, and as I said, my dealer could not give me a definitive answer, other than the SABS genuine which he procured was very different in colour and the maker did what was needed to replicate it..so I am assuming for practical purposes it was listed as "PVD"

It's interesting to note that many science papers refer to "Physical vapor Depostion" as a "generic term" for a 'technique'.

PVD, or Physical Vapour Deposition, is a generic term used for a group of vacuum coating techniques that are used to deposit thin film coatings that enhance the properties and performance of tools and machine components.

Carbon Nitride is one of several types of material that can be deposited through PVD and the related CVD (Chemical Vapor Deposition.)

Other materials that can be deposited through PVD or CVD:

Diamond-Like Carbon (DLC)- black color, very, very hard

Titianium Nitride (TiN)- gold color, exact match, sometimes used as superior faux gold plating, as it wears less

Titianium Aluminum Nitride (TiAlN) - Bronze to black color, depending on the aluminum content

Titanium CarboNitride (TiCN) - blue-grey to pink color, depending on the carbon content

Chromium Nitride (CrN) is silver in color, generally, can be built-up thicker than TiN and TiAlN (around 0.0001"), can with-stand higher temperatures (700F range) and is non-toxic (use in medical implants.)

There are a host of proprietary ceramics that can be used as well, these have just about any color you wish.

As I was perplexed as to why the first project was scrubbed .. it was being done by pics.. the prototype was not as it should be so... the project was started all over again with a different maker and a genuine copy.. and we have waited a little over a year for the results... I could not figure why they would do PVD when the Skyland was done in DLC,.. but as you can see below the 2 models are very different in texture and colour.

This is the genuine SABS.. shinny finish

This is the Skyland BS ..

As you can see the 2 models are very different in the finish under the coating

this may explain why the SABS could not be done with conventional DLC..

but the carbon nitrate had to be applied via PVD..

so the finish as you can see is very different from the Skyland BS

It is grey, like the Skyland DLC and the sheen is rather obvious..

With the Human eye.. you will not see the splotches on the finish.

Notice the sheen on the bezel.. as it should be

This is not the colour of straight PVD

Another angle of the genuine

again not black.. not totally grey

The colour replicated rather well.. IMO

the pushers and crown are not brushed (on the genuine)

The finish from another angle.. nicely done

Dark Grey

The Dial.. notice something totally out of context??

The bloody Markers are CENTERED

The Sub rings turn from black to silver depending on lighting

The rehaut.. notice the colour of the red of the rehaut

the tips of the Chrono hands are matched a bit better than

the Skyland BS was..still may be a very un-noticeable shade off

The Sub dial lines are as they should be

a better look at the texture of the dial in strong light

The AR is a nice Plum in less direct lighting.. blue hue in stronger light

The Case Back

A pic of the Skyland BS.. the colour of the SABS is the same.. the finish is different though

on the Skyland

so I believe the maker did a good job with the coating of the SABS rep, same grey as the Skyland DLC

The bezel has just the slightest play in between clicks.. just a bit loose .. not an issue though...

I would double check these screws to make sure they are fastened securely, if they are faux.. (I have not checked) locktite super glue may help to keep them in place

Nicely, there are no sharp edges to the case and tang buckle..the tabs on the bezel are a little sharper but not an issue..the chrono hand is nicely centered the sub needles work well...the pushers are solid, same as my genuine chrono's.. no issues there.

and to repeat, the lume is centered .. excellent!!...the lume from what I see, without full charge is strong.. even my relume on my Skyland does not glow like a torch.. it is a very minute lume size on the Breitlings SA and Skylands..

IMO it will not appear as big as the SS Super Avenger due to the colour.. and with the rubber strap sits nicely on my wrist.. I do have the same HKtan black with red stitching that I used on my Skyland.. it has been waiting over a year for the SABS..

If anything I will drop a ETA 7750 in it.. the rotor on the A7750 needs a lube.. it is rather noisy ... sop ..

In closing .. I think the coating was well done.. I believe some cleaning of the metal will be in order. fresh DLC/PVD could always use a polish without any petroleum by products .. just water and a toothbrush me thinks..

Thank you for viewing.. good luck with your SABS if you decide to go with it..I hope this helped shed some light on the rep..

AC/Lani

[Rxus]

Nicely done Lani! It is apperant in your pics that this model does in fact look smaller then it's SS counterpart just as you mentioned. great review as always and when you get a chance put some w/c pics with that red stitched strap...I'm sure it looks fantastic.

[bwhitesox]

Hats off to you Lani for a fantastic review The colour of the watch actually looks pretty good in your fantastic photos...So tempting.

[asf]

im not gunna lie, the first thing I noticed was how fantastic the lume dots were! I thought those were of your Skyland BS at first!~

[lanikai]

Thanks guy's.. I did attempt to scratch the underside of the lugs with a paper clip..it does seem that the DLC was applied via PVD method.. it did not scratch like PVD would..and the colour is that of DLC.

[dluddy]

Very nicely replicated. Thanks for taking the time to do such a thorough review Lani

I know it's strange coming from a guy who has a PAM collection but jeezzz, I can't keep all of these Breits straight, they all look similar

As much as I like this and the Blacksteel, I think I am zeroing in on the Non-Chrono Black Dial Seawolf as my next Breit

[Toadtorrent]

Beautiful piece Lani...it's got heft that's for sure. Pics? For you...SOP...which means for us...outstanding eye-candy.

The pics really are something!

[redwatch]

Super review Lani! Thanks for taking the time to do this (especially on New Years Eve too!)

What are the dimensions of the SABS?

[lanikai]

Very nicely replicated. Thanks for taking the time to do such a thorough review Lani

I know it's strange coming from a guy who has a PAM collection but jeezzz, I can't keep all of these Breits straight, they all look similar

As much as I like this and the Blacksteel, I think I am zeroing in on the Non-Chrono Black Dial Seawolf as my next Breit

You nailed it D ... it's like a family of 10 kids.. they all look alike.. the one thing with the B-ling.. the generations of dials hardly change.. seen one dial.. seen em all..

Thank you TT..

AC/Lani

[lanikai]

To clarify.. these 3 coatings are different and as I understand them can be applied together or separately.. explaining the statement that I used form a genuine fora from someone who does coating work for watches... and as he states the SABS uses the Carbon Nitride.. but everyone has gotten so used to just calling it DLC.. there are many coatings under this one label.

Diamond like carbon is DLC

Carbon Nitride is not factually DLC.. but has come to be called DLC also

Titanium Nitride a different colour

From another member on the gen fora talking of DLC and Carbon Nitride

I'm also pretty sure the carbon nitride process used on the Breitling Blacksteel is the reactive sputtering technique described under "other deposition processes." It doesn't need a high-vacuum.

I read from University papers on the net that these coatings can be deposited using the PVD method.. so it gets to be a lot of different coatings all for added strength and some used for colour as well as durability..

it is interesting to note that .. I believe it was a paper from North Carolina University where they were trying to combine all 3 coatings I mentioned above (DLC~ Cn~ and TiN into one coating.. too complex chemistry for me..

[spontaneous]

Great Review, perfect timing as this bad boy is next in line on my wish list

[lanikai]

You know until I started digging into what the coating used on the rep SABS.. I thought PVD and DLC were totally different animals.. not so according to a little research..

"Magnetron pvd sputtering" is the method used for all coatings.. be it Carbon Nitride.. Titanium Nitride.. or a host of other amphorus elements or compounds.. amphorus meaning .. with no defined shape or form..whatever you chemistry dudes get from that..

so the coating that is used determines it's value toward colour and toughness.. it was explained in the early years of the DLC "coatings" discovery that to attempt to create a diamond's toughness was like trying to travel the speed of light.. not possible..that was over 20 years ago..

so to clarify .. DLC.. includes a lot of different coatings.. and "PVD" is the magnetron sputtering technique use to apply the coating..

so the maker was not wrong to to call the SABS coating PVD... it is another generic term for just the technique that is used.

Carbon Nitride is what is used.. no amount of prep to the metal will alter the colour.. it can ..(imo alter the look.. ie. from one of more sheen to more of a matte look).. it is determined by the Carbon Nitride applied via PVD.. so the PVD of old had different compounds used is all.. ergo some of the cheaper PVD use different compounds in the coating... that is at least my understanding of this science..

like a paint brush is your tool.. but the paints are all different.. acrylic enamel.. water colour.. oil based.. water based..and lead paint which is illegal but still used on the bottom of boats.. and highly toxic... all different coatings.

I hope I made more sense of PVD/DLC

AC/Lani

[valerian]

Wow, Lani. You have outdone yourself once more with this review.

Thanks for taking the time. This must have been a lot of work.

Val.

[concepta]

Lani..i must give it to you! You are the master of writing reviews! You help A LOT of guys out deciding when to buy and not to!

My hat is off and i bow for your effort!

You are a true asset to this community!

Thanks / C

[Watchmeister]

Great review. And it seems they have actually corrected some if not all of the biggest flaws from the Skyland - centered dots and better red on the chrono hands. I was surprised to hear about the bezel click mechanism. The Skyland has one of the best and tightest of any rep - virtually identical to my gen CA. Thanks again.

[OSRep]

Truly informative as always.....thanks Lani!! I learnt some big words too,, for e.g. "amorphous"

[Toadtorrent]

You nailed it D ... it's like a family of 10 kids.. they all look alike.. the one thing with the B-ling.. the generations of dials hardly change.. seen one dial.. seen em all..

I agree too...BUT, for someone new and starting out with B's...seeing this can show you what you can get. I see no need for all variants of the Avengers: Blacksteel, Skyland, Super, Super Blacksteel, Super with stick, etc, etc even the non-chrono versions...but the pics really show the quality available!

I have no PVD or Ceramic watches so seeing something like the Blacksteel Skyland or the ceramic Top Gun or things like that in pics like yours Lani really gives as close a look at these things as you can get if a gen is available for true wrist test-drive.

Thanks again as always...and a Happy New Year to you and all the best for a new crop of super-photo spotlights for 2010!!

[blackbard]

Awesome review!

[lanikai]

Super review Lani! Thanks for taking the time to do this (especially on New Years Eve too!)

What are the dimensions of the SABS?

Sorry Red,.. with my interest in the metal I left out the dimensions

48mm without the crown; 54mm with the crown

Thickness 20 mm .. behemoth

Great review. And it seems they have actually corrected some if not all of the biggest flaws from the Skyland - centered dots and better red on the chrono hands. I was surprised to hear about the bezel click mechanism. The Skyland has one of the best and tightest of any rep - virtually identical to my gen CA. Thanks again.

I'm hoping it's an isolated case Kruz and not consistent with all the SABS reps.

thanks again All for the support..

AC/Lani

[andreww]

Great review Lani. I knew there had to be more to the coating than just being plain PVD. From Josh's pictures, it just didn't look black like traditional PVD tends to look. You fabulous pics have confirmed this. I'd be really interested to know how the bezel attaches? It would be fabulous if the screws actually worked like the gen. We can only hope!

[Bike Mike]

Great review Lani!

The quick and short of it:

PVD is a process of applying different coating. Just like CVD (Chemical Vapor Disposition), PLD (Pulse Laser Disposition) and vacuum metalizing.

DLC, CTiN, TiN, etc. are all the different types of coating. DLC, I believe there are about 7 variants, us stirckly Carbon that is arranged in different structures that yield different properties.

TiCN, has the addition of Titanium, great for wear resistance and hardness, but no good in high temperature applications. I had a friend the ordered a .50Cal Desert Eagle in the TICN finish because it sounded so cool! Man was he [censored] when it arrived! Yep it is pink!

TiN has less the Carbon of TiCN, so it is not as hard, but handles high operating temperatures much better. A lot of cutting tools are coated in TiN.

[lanikai]

Great review Lani!

The quick and short of it:

PVD is a process of applying different coating. Just like CVD (Chemical Vapor Disposition), PLD (Pulse Laser Disposition) and vacuum metalizing.

DLC, CTiN, TiN, etc. are all the different types of coating. DLC, I believe there are about 7 variants, us stirckly Carbon that is arranged in different structures that yield different properties.

TiCN, has the addition of Titanium, great for wear resistance and hardness, but no good in high temperature applications. I had a friend the ordered a .50Cal Desert Eagle in the TICN finish because it sounded so cool! Man was he [censored] when it arrived! Yep it is pink!

TiN has less the Carbon of TiCN, so it is not as hard, but handles high operating temperatures much better. A lot of cutting tools are coated in TiN.

Yes.. I listed all the pertinent coatings in the review I believe.. and the TiCN .. will be of the pink colour.. the Titanium and the Carbon Nitride will result in this colour according to the charts..

AS a side.. dunno what is seen in the Desert Storm other than being a cannon of sorts..not very accurate hand gun.. bigger is not always better.. I'll take a 9 anyday..

[lanikai]

Great review Lani. I knew there had to be more to the coating than just being plain PVD. From Josh's pictures, it just didn't look black like traditional PVD tends to look. You fabulous pics have confirmed this. I'd be really interested to know how the bezel attaches? It would be fabulous if the screws actually worked like the gen. We can only hope!

OK.. checked it out..

Negative A.. non "working" bezel screws..

[lanikai]

And I should comment on the divers strap..

the SABS strap is softer than the Skyland BS.. and fits the buckle much better.. I had to sand down the edges of the strap on the Skyland, the SABS fits perfectly..

[Bike Mike]

AS a side.. dunno what is seen in the Desert Storm other than being a cannon of sorts..not very accurate hand gun.. bigger is not always better.. I'll take a 9 anyday..

The DE has one heck of a giggle factor everytime you pull the trigger. Although at $1.25+ every squeeze, the fun aspect wears quickly. Like I you prefer smaller, .40cal.

Reading your review more, I kind of wonder if the SS type will have a factor in the final appearance of the DLC. My guess as it would as I know coating processes like anodizing had a big appearance difference depending on the material. I think I have some old contact that did TiN coating near me, see if they are still around and can shed some light on the subject.