Take the plunge or wait for GMT iic 2893

[gtanak]

Hi all,

Absolute newbie here, read almost 20 mind boggling pages of threads and i'm only slighter clearer as to what i want. Need some advice whether i should go ahead with Joshua's Ultimate GMT 2c with swiss 2836-2 (golden movement only) or does any one here know if the factories may come up with a GMT movement like 2893 for the GMT 2c? Also, should i be concerned about the (golden movement only) written on joshua's website or should i save $130 and get an Asian 2836 movement? The new update also mentions the bracelet is now 316F on the ultimate instead of 316L s/s on the others, am i going to feel a difference? Appreciate any comments please to help make my mind up.

Thanks!

Gerald

Edited March 25, 2010 by gtanak

[siesta181]

I dont think the factories are gonna be putting in 2893s in the GMTs anytime soon. Its not as easy to source and can be quite pricey. A possible option is to get the 2836 and a 2893 mvt and get a watchmaker to swap.

[Brightight]

Although the 2893 movement is considered better quality than the 2836-2, it is NOT like the Rolex movement as it uses the same additional gears as the 2836-2 to provide GMT functionality and is not correct hand stack. As such I see no point in waiting. Personally I would go for the Asian 2836 movement as you can never be sure you are actually getting a swiss movement when you pay for it. Years down the line if the Asian movement ultimately fails and cannot be repaired for any reason, you can buy a swiss movement and have it put in, they are interchangeable.

I cannot comment on the 316F but use your search, there are a lot of posts on it, I think it is considered to be largely a bit of a sales gimmick so I doubt you'd feel a difference.

[Brightight]

I dont think the factories are gonna be putting in 2893s in the GMTs anytime soon. Its not as easy to source and can be quite pricey. A possible option is to get the 2836 and a 2893 mvt and get a watchmaker to swap.

That might be quite tricky as the 2893 is a thinner movement and by the time you line the stem up you may need longer canon pinion, hour wheel, etc to clear the dial. If you end up needing a longer GMT wheel, that might be very tricky. Apart from which, why would you bother?

[gtanak]

Although the 2893 movement is considered better quality than the 2836-2, it is NOT like the Rolex movement as it uses the same additional gears as the 2836-2 to provide GMT functionality and is not correct hand stack. As such I see no point in waiting. Personally I would go for the Asian 2836 movement as you can never be sure you are actually getting a swiss movement when you pay for it. Years down the line if the Asian movement ultimately fails and cannot be repaired for any reason, you can buy a swiss movement and have it put in, they are interchangeable.

I cannot comment on the 316F but use your search, there are a lot of posts on it, I think it is considered to be largely a bit of a sales gimmick so I doubt you'd feel a difference.

THanks Brightight for your incisive reply. No intention to open up the back case once i receive it so i may never know what movement is inside till it one day quits on me. And like u said, swapping in a swiss movement later on would not be too costly or laborious. Just to verify, there should be no great difference in terms of accuracy btw the asian or swiss 2386 right? Like date change at midnight, GMT needle following hour hand etc, both are going at 28.800 right?

[FxrAndy]

Both are 28800, there should be some reports soon on fiting the 2893 into GMTCs from the ones i have sold, you never know they may just fit perfectly!

[gtanak]

Both are 28800, there should be some reports soon on fiting the 2893 into GMTCs from the ones i have sold, you never know they may just fit perfectly!

Took the plunge and ordered a asian 2836 from Josh. Shipped out and waiting now... meanwhile already picked up an original box set and watch winder with the money i saved. Haha.. Josh tempting me with the DSSD now... the blue is so alluring!!

[sneed12]

Like date change at midnight, GMT needle following hour hand etc, both are going at 28.800 right?

Date change at midnight depends entirely on how well the hands were set during assembly of the watch, has nothing to do with the overall quality of the movement (assuming that it is working correctly, I mean). Same deal with the GMT following hour hand, assuming the modifications to the 2836 are reasonably well-done there should not be any problems with the GMT hand drifting out of time--it is geared directly to the date wheel.

[FxrAndy]

Date change at midnight depends entirely on how well the hands were set during assembly of the watch, has nothing to do with the overall quality of the movement (assuming that it is working correctly, I mean). Same deal with the GMT following hour hand, assuming the modifications to the 2836 are reasonably well-done there should not be any problems with the GMT hand drifting out of time--it is geared directly to the date wheel.

The GMT hand runs through a can on pin like clutch so that it will be adjustable, if dry or over oiled then the GMT hand can slip and the GMT hand will be seen to loose time

[sneed12]

The GMT hand runs through a can on pin like clutch so that it will be adjustable, if dry or over oiled then the GMT hand can slip and the GMT hand will be seen to loose time

The ICHS GMT hands I've seen have been geared directly to the gear that drives the date change mechanism... are we talking about the same thing?

[kbh]

Both are 28800, there should be some reports soon on fiting the 2893 into GMTCs from the ones i have sold, you never know they may just fit perfectly!

This got me nervous so I went ahead and dropped it into the GMTIIC case and with the movement spacer it indeed does line up perfectly. I'm currently waiting for the hand set to arrive. It appears that it shouldn't be a problem at all to swap out the movements.

[Brightight]

This got me nervous so I went ahead and dropped it into the GMTIIC case and with the movement spacer it indeed does line up perfectly. I'm currently waiting for the hand set to arrive. It appears that it shouldn't be a problem at all to swap out the movements.

That's good to know, it's always been a concern to me as to whether the hands would clear the dial when the stem is lined up.

[gtanak]

That's good to know, it's always been a concern to me as to whether the hands would clear the dial when the stem is lined up.

Isn't this a mod worth considering for anyone who has the rep? At least it will function like the gen and with CHS, someone correct me if my understanding is wrong.

[FxrAndy]

The ICHS GMT hands I've seen have been geared directly to the gear that drives the date change mechanism... are we talking about the same thing?

If you look at the transfer gears you will see that they have a slipping pinion, with out this then you would not be able to adjust the hand, think about it if it did not have a clutch how could it be adjusted

@ Gtanak, you will still have an incorrect hand stack on a modern GMT but you will have a movement that is designed as a GMT from the start not one modified by industrious Chinese so reliability will be massively improved

[panerai153]

I to have been waiting for quite a while for the 2893-2 to be used in the GMT IIC's. I really don't think it is going to happen. The last watches I remember that came from the rep factories with 2893-2's were some PAM reps back several years ago. I had two of them, and they were great reps, unfortunately, they were only available for a short time and they were replaced by the modified 2836's. The story then was ETA was limiting the sale of 2893-2's and the rep manufacturers weren't able to get a supply at a reasonable price. I think that that coupled with the price was the reason the 2836 was used as a replacement. Even today, the price of the 2893-2 is probably over twice the price of 2836. Also ETA is certainly limiting the supply, because quite frequently supply houses like Ofrei or Jules Borel don't have the 2893-2 in stock. Obviously it is a reliable movement as most watch manufacturers who don't use in house movements (Rolex,IWC,UN) use the 2893-2 as their movement of choice for their GMT models.

I was under the impression that the GMT hand ran off some sort of clutch wheel in the 2836's, which accounted for the slippage that was found in the early models. That was the big knock against this movement when it first started appearing in the PAM GMT's, after a while the GMT hand would start to slip and lose time. Possibly the rep manufacturers have solved that problem, I don't know. My question is, if the modified 2836 is a good reliable movement, why don't genuine watch manufacturers use it? Certainly it is cheaper than the 2893-2.

[kbh]

That's good to know, it's always been a concern to me as to whether the hands would clear the dial when the stem is lined up.

I'm concerned about that myself. I haven't received the hands yet but it looks like it's going to be awful tight. What I don't understand is that I'm using the spacer that comes with the movement and the date wheel looks positioned perfectly. Very close to the dial. So, in theory the hands should work, I would think. But those dial markers are awful tall and unless there is a decent size tube on the hands, it could cause problems.

[jnkay]

I transplanted a gen 2836 into my GMTIIc and the hour hand wore a path through the dial as it moved over several days

[sneed12]

If you look at the transfer gears you will see that they have a slipping pinion, with out this then you would not be able to adjust the hand, think about it if it did not have a clutch how could it be adjusted

Ah yes, you're absolutely right.