Blue Tudor Snowflake 9411 Project

[Collin24]

Hello guys,

I have decided upon a Tudor 9411 project and I'm in need of some information.

I plan on buying from www.yukiwatch.com the following parts: 9411 case and crystal (hope they are available), blue dial, hands set and a Tudor rotor.

The questions are:

- what crown is suitable for this case and where can I buy one?

- where can I find an ETA-2784, a silver DW and a blue bezel insert?

- where can I find a good watchmaker in the EU to put these together and waterproof the watch?

- any chance the project will cost me less than 1000$?

I'm sure there are other aspects I haven't thought about so anyone that has some insight please feel free to post your thoughts.

Best Regards,

Catalin

Edited April 23, 2010 by Collin24

[foucalt]

I have the same project going and so far have a case, crystal, movement (2783), silver date wheel, hands, crown, tube, o-ring and springbars. What I am missing is a bezel assembly and dial (going for nato strap). I'm probably going to order a dial from Yuki soon and the bezel from Watchmaterial. A gen dial went on eBay yesterday for $200 which I just missed.

I got the crown and date wheel off eBay (can look up the seller if you want). I think the 7mm triplock screwdown with Rolex logo is the correct for the 9411. The 2784 movement is tricky to find at a reasonable price, there are one or two other ETA 28,800 bph movements that might work if you really want the hi-beat.

I've spent about $300 so far (got a great deal on the case) so $1000 should be doable, but then again I don't have the correct movement.

[ubiquitous]

The questions are:

- what crown is suitable for this case and where can I buy one?

- where can I find an ETA-2784, a silver DW and a blue bezel insert?

- where can I find a good watchmaker in the EU to put these together and waterproof the watch?

- any chance the project will cost me less than 1000$?

I'm sure there are other aspects I haven't thought about so anyone that has some insight please feel free to post your thoughts.

Hi Catalin,

The 9411 is a great project piece; a fun watch that has a lot of character and is a great departure from the usual Rolex Submariner look with it's square indicies and hands. There are a couple of different approaches one can take with the project, all depending on how and where you source your parts. The key is to be diligent in your search and to know what you're after specifically.

With regards to your questions:

-For a crown, I would suggest using a genuine Rolex 7mm Triplock crown and tube for this project (703-0/7030). The genuine crown and tube have the correct aesthetics, but from a function and feel standpoint, it's worth the small cost alone for these parts.

-Locating a 2784 will likely require you to purchase a complete watch to use as a donor for the movement (luckily, these watches are rarely very expensive). You should also consider the 2783, which was fitted to the 9411 models as well. These can be found for as little as $25 at times. The brushed silver datewheel will be a difficult item to locate.

-A good watchmaker in the EU... Maybe give Bricciola a try?

-If you have a budget of $1k, you may need to get creative in the parts that you purchase. If your goal is to use genuine parts such as dial, hands insert, crystal, etc. the dial alone is going to put you pretty close to the $1k mark. The hands will run $250 minimum for a fair - poor condition trit set, or for a genuine service replacement lumi set (count on $400 for a nice tritium set), and the case will also run around $600 or so from Yuki. A Cyclope 125 genuine service crystal usually runs around $130 on the typical secondary market, though in some cases, they can be found for signifiacntly less and service Lumi inserts are usually around $120 as well (vintage tritium fat font inserts can escalate in price pretty quickly, especially for the blue).

A couple of alternatives that you might want to take into consideration-

-Using an MBW case instead of the Yuki will give you some breathing room on project capital; a complete MBW can be puchased for half of the Yuki case. The only downside is not having the correct Tudor signed caseback (though sometimes those can be purchased a la carte for a lot less than the difference saved between the two cases).

-Aftermarket dials, hands, crystals, inserts etc. will be more affordable, however the aesthetics and overall quality will not be up to genuine standards. If you are not bothered by these differences in details, this is likely your best bet for building a watch within your price threshold.

-Jewelry and Watch offers a decent 9411, all complete for $900-ish. That may be a good starting basis for your project for just a little more than the Yuki case alone. This would give you a working, complete watch to start with, and you can slowly upgrade it as time and money permit.

-A standard genuine 9411 doesn't cost much more than some of these projects. For best results, save up a little more and just buy gen

Normally I'm all about project watches, as that is what makes the hobby fun for me. However, there comes a point where sometimes the economics of a gen watch complete just makes more sense.

Hope this helps...

//ubi

[panerai153]

I'm with ubi on this, unless you can do most of the work yourself,and have access to folks who have parts and or know where to find them, this could turn into a pretty frustrating project. Every so often incomplete Tudor "project' watches show up on the sales page. Usually the sellers either give up in frustration, or find that the project is costing too much. I would seriously consider investing in a genuine 9411. If you are patient, you can often pick up one in very nice condition at a reasonable price. The other reason, the Tudor subs are the next 1680's and 1665's. the prices have probably doubled in the past few years, and will continue to go up. you can wear one for years,and if you keep it in good condition, you can get your moneu back and more should you decide to sell.

[Member X]

Great post, Ubi

[gavidoc]

Building a blue dial 9411 is more cost prohibitive then the black brother. Main reason being, the blue dial and especially a vintage blue insert are nearly impossible to find in good condition. I built this:

The only thing that wasn't a gen part was the actual case.

To give you an idea, here is what the parts cost me (keep in mind that I have some friends who deal in vintage Rolex/Tudor parts so I was able to get some good rpices on mine).

1. MBW Case: $0 (Eurotimez sent me an extra case as an apology when he had to replace a bent one I had paid for)
   
2. Gen blue dial: Got it in trade but trade value was around $200
   
3. Hands: $150
   
4. Crown/Tube: $65
   
5. Vintage blue faded fat font Insert: $150 (well below market price as I sold it for almost $300 IIRC)
   
6. Gen 2784 movement: $200
   
7. Gen T125 crystal: $80
   
8. Bezel Assembly: $550
   
9. Zig Relume: $60 iirc
   

Total cost: $1455

I had so much invested in it that I wasn't able to sell the thing as a Gen doesn't cost much more then this. Also, I did all the case mods and installation myself which would have cost quite a bit if I had a watch tech do it for me. When you remove the Gen Bezel, I was still just under $1000 though I went all out. Keep in mind that this was also with getting a good deal on the hands, dial, crystal, and insert. I actually ended up parting the watch out and sold the gen parts on various fora (both Gen and Rep) for considerably more then I had in the watch itself. Gen parts sometimes can actually go more then what a watch sells for as a whole. I've torn apart a few Tudor Subs just to part them out for this very reason and typically if I can find one at a good price, can almost double my investment on the parts alone. That is something you need to consider if you go the gen parts route.

If you want to go a lower cost route, do the 2783 movement and aftermarket parts though I will say that two things that Ubi states I disagree with (though am always looking for new information) for accuracy sake. 1. 2783's were not offered in 9411's from the factory that I have personally ever seen. 2. Silver date wheels were not found on 9411's as far as I'm aware of. They were on the 76100 though but when they went with the 79090 they went back to white/black.

[ubiquitous]

1. 2783's were not offered in 9411's from the factory that I have personally ever seen. 2. Silver date wheels were not found on 9411's as far as I'm aware of. They were on the 76100 though but when they went with the 79090 they went back to white/black.

I have personally seen both in more than one occassion.

[gavidoc]

I have personally seen both in more than one occassion.

Ubi, what were the dates on them if you know and were they all original?

[ubiquitous]

Original, yes. Dates... I will need to go through my log book and see if I noted the serials. One was purchased on behalf of a friend for whom I helped him purchase.

[ubiquitous]

934XXX, which I believe places this thing around '78, I think? I'll need to ask him if he's ever sent it into any of the RSC's for service (it was probably due when I passed it on to his possession). But it definitely had a 2783 in it. Maybe I can even get him to register and post here (he's not a rep guy, and he's not even an Internet forum kind of guy)...

[kent2]

oops

[kent2]

is the dial needed 26mm in diameter? i have this and was going to do something. it has languished in my parts box. it is a genuine dial

[gavidoc]

934XXX, which I believe places this thing around '78, I think? I'll need to ask him if he's ever sent it into any of the RSC's for service (it was probably due when I passed it on to his possession). But it definitely had a 2783 in it. Maybe I can even get him to register and post here (he's not a rep guy, and he's not even an Internet forum kind of guy)...

That is interesting. Was it finshed and all like a normal tudor 2784? A 934XXX is near the end of the 9411 timeline which makes it even odder. You can find 2824's in the later 9411's. Finding a 2783 powered 9411 is so far outside the realm of accepted norm that I know guys who would view originality with high degree of skepticism (unless it was documented to have only been serviced at RSC's) and wouldn't buy one or would negotiate a discount for it.

[ubiquitous]

That is interesting. Was it finshed and all like a normal tudor 2784? A 934XXX is near the end of the 9411 timeline which makes it even odder. You can find 2824's in the later 9411's. Finding a 2783 powered 9411 is so far outside the realm of accepted norm that I know guys who would view originality with high degree of skepticism (unless it was documented to have only been serviced at RSC's) and wouldn't buy one or would negotiate a discount for it.

The source from which I purchased on his behalf is one that I trust as a reliable dealer of vintage Rolex and Tudors. Conversely, I have NEVER seen nor heard of a 9411 with a 2824; I would be even more skeptical of that configuration. 79090, yes, but 9411/0, no.

I was once of the opinion of '2784 ONLY', until I saw for myself a 100% genuine, with provenance 9411/0 with a 2783 under it's caseback.

[ubiquitous]

Kent-

The gen dial is in fact 26mm; based on your pic, it looks legit.

[Collin24]

Thank you all.

I have decided to move away from gen parts and look for good quality aftermarket parts.

I was qouted 700usd for a case, dial and hands set, a tudor rotor and a gen tube and crown.

If I can find a mvmt and blue insert for 200 and watchmaker for 200, I m happy.

What do you think? Is MBW a better alternative and how can I find his website?

Cheers and a nice weekend to everyone.

Catalin

[vlydog]

Greetings Catalin

If you go with a Lumi dial, I have a pair of NOS Lumi snowflake hands.

[ubiquitous]

One thing I forgot to mention; if you do opt to go with the MBW case, you'll need to mod the case slightly. Lugs need to be drilled to accept gen springbars and the CG's will need to be shaped for best results. Granted, the Yuki case could probably benefit a bit from CG shaping as well...

$700 for a case, dial, hands, Tudor rotor and gen crown and tube is actually not terribly bad. Just add a movement. If you are using a Yuki supplied case, and they are able to provide you with a blue insert of the same quality as their black 5513/1680/1665 insert, you'll be in good shape.

[Collin24]

I will go with the yuki parts, but they don't have a blue insert, so all I need is the insert, the movement and a decent DW.

Any ideas on where to find these?

[ubiquitous]

Another option to at least consider...

Nice case with that one...

[gavidoc]

The source from which I purchased on his behalf is one that I trust as a reliable dealer of vintage Rolex and Tudors. Conversely, I have NEVER seen nor heard of a 9411 with a 2824; I would be even more skeptical of that configuration. 79090, yes, but 9411/0, no.

I was once of the opinion of '2784 ONLY', until I saw for myself a 100% genuine, with provenance 9411/0 with a 2783 under it's caseback.

Guess it's one of those gotta see it to believe it things. I never thought a 2824 9411 existed till a few years ago. Only in the late ones during the rollout of the 76100's. Early 76100's and late 9411's were cross pollinated with their serial #'s, movements, and casebacks. Early 76100's had 9411 stamped casebacks and profile and 2824's. I owned an early 76100 about 4 years ago that had a 963XXX serial and it had the same caseback as the 9411. I've seen late serial 96XXX 9411's with 2824's with the silver datewheels. They also shared the same crystal which was the T147 IIRC though they are the same diamter as the T125, just not as tall I think. Can't remember. The important thing I didn't mention though was that the late 9411's I saw had the triangle dials like the 76100, not the snowflakes. I've seen 4 like that over the years and held a blue one in my hands at a brick and mortor in Charleston when I lived in South Carolina. I had bought my first snowflake from him.

As for the topic at hand, to me, I agree with UBi that $700 for the Yuki parts seems to be good.

[Collin24]

Ubi, can you give me the link to the website?

Edited April 23, 2010 by Collin24

[ubiquitous]

PM'd...

[OSRep]

Im LOVING this thread. Thanks Ubi, Doc etc for an entertaining and informative read. I would absolutely love to put together a Snowflake some day too.....Need time, patience and a bit of free moolah too!! Its worth it though......Snowflakes got tons of character (and def shifts from the classic sub look).....

Good luck with the project collin!

[ubiquitous]

BTW... Brushed, silver DW's... Serif'd fonts...

Oh, and 2783...