36mm Oyster Perpetual Case Question

[Brightight]

Does anyone know if Rolex use the same Oyster case for the Datejust (say 1601/16014) as is used for the Explorer 1016, apart from the engravings and the crystal? Looking at pics they seem similar and it struck me that it would make sense if Rolex did this but......

I've picked up a gen 1016 dial with a view to building a Franken, but 1016 cases are few and far between, and expensive (I missed one today on ebay which went for over $500, which is incidentally around the price Yuki charges so I suppose it's a bargain....). DJ cases are fairly plentiful and a lot cheaper and I suppose if I was anal enough I could get the model engravings filled and redone.

[chiman12]

That's funny you should ask...

LHOOQ, JMB and I have been working on a 1016 project with a gen 1601 case. It was basically assessed that a custom bezel would need to be made. I supplied a gen 1601 case to JMB so that he can fab a bezel that is based on the gen 1016 bezel dimensions. So far, it looks like everything will work. I hope LH will post some pics when the project is complete! It sounds like is going to be an interesting one!

LH!!! Do you want to add anything???

[lhooq]

Er... Can I pass the mic over to jmb? I think the case is still in transit!

While I can't comment on actual measurements, here's the thought process driving this current project:

I used to think that the 1016 had a larger case than contemporary Datejusts, because every time I handled a gen, it just looked bigger overall. After some discussions with ChiMan12 and stilty (if you haven't read up on his legendary franken 1016, do so), I concluded that it would be best to focus on the bezel. After you get past the dial, I believe the bezel is the 1016's key departure from the Datejust.

Consider: Both the 1601's Cyclope 118 and the 1016's Tropic 22 share the same inner diameter (29.5mm), but the T22 is significantly thicker (31.1mm vs 30.6mm). This makes sense, given the intended use of each watch. And having looked at hundreds of pictures of the 1016, the feature that sticks out is how the bezel extends past the sides of the case. Consequently, the whole watch looks bigger than the Datejust. I wish my calipers and I could have five minutes with a gen, or that I'd bought that genuine 1016 bezel that was sold on VRF last year!

I really don't know how it will shake out at this point, but I'm confident that a 1601 plus a custom bezel (expertly crafted by jmb!) ought to be pretty damn close to the gen 1016's dimensions. Note, however, that stilty compared different Datejust cases and found that the modern ones (162xx) were the closest match to the 1016. I wanted to ask him to expand on that, but his mailbox is full!

For this project, I'll be using a nice aftermarket dial with questionable 'Tiffany & Co.' branding. If it's no good, I'll probably go with a Yuki dial. (I'll find out when I pick it up from the post office tomorrow.) I'd rather not get a gen due to the cost; also, this will be an ETA-powered franken, and I'd hate myself for mutilating a real dial!

Speaking of prices, I believe Yuki sells their 1016 case for closer to $400. There's no way you're going to find a genuine 1016 case for less than $1000--$2000 is more likely. (And if I remember correctly, the 1016 case that sold on eBay was incomplete.) At those prices, I'd save a bit more for a complete gen.

[TeeJay]

I have a spare decal for an Explorer dial which you're welcome to, alternatively, if you have a no-date dial blank, I'd be happy to do a dial for you

[Brightight]

Thanks for the comments guys. I've picked up a 16014 DJ Case for not a huge amount of money so I can experiment on that. Looks like I'm going to need a custom bezel then Although I did see a post by Stilty saying you could use the standard DJ bezel but take a little off the inner diameter.

@LHOOQ - I emailed Yuki day before yesterday and was told $450 for the case + $50 if you want your own serial engraved (wasn't clear whether the case comes with a serial as standard) + $36 shipping. The case that sold on ebay yesterday was only missing the crystal and the crown tube. It was also only available to the UK and was described as a 70's Rolex Oyster case.

I may ultimately go for the Yuki case but I'm doing this for fun first and complete accuracy second so we'll see how it goes.

[Brightight]

I have a spare decal for an Explorer dial which you're welcome to, alternatively, if you have a no-date dial blank, I'd be happy to do a dial for you ]

TeeJay, thanks, that's very kind (people on this forum are really great!!) but I picked up a Singer dial, which I'm pretty sure is a refin or even a copy, but it will do nicely for this project -

[lhooq]

Brightlight: My mistake. I just checked eBay and the case I remembered was complete but dented, and sold for $1500. The one you were looking at sounds like a phenomenal deal.

If you do decide to go with Yuki, I'd be very interested to know your impressions of the case. It looks good in pictures, unlike the terrible 1016 replacement being sold -for $900!- by NDTrading.

Finally, I would like to apologize for raising the price of your dial by an extra five bucks! I also noticed that the day after you won it, the same Hong Kong-based seller had five more with a Buy-It-Now of $111... It looks like a good dial with crisp printing of the text and markers. The numerals are more rounded than is usual, but I've seen gen examples on which the tritium goes pretty much where it pleases. My biggest reservation concerns the '6', which appears to have levitated a bit!

[TeeJay]

TeeJay, thanks, that's very kind (people on this forum are really great!!) but I picked up a Singer dial, which I'm pretty sure is a refin or even a copy, but it will do nicely for this project -

Glad to hear you've got the situation taken care of I have good feelings about this project

[Brightight]

Brightlight: My mistake. I just checked eBay and the case I remembered was complete but dented, and sold for $1500. The one you were looking at sounds like a phenomenal deal.

If you do decide to go with Yuki, I'd be very interested to know your impressions of the case. It looks good in pictures, unlike the terrible 1016 replacement being sold -for $900!- by NDTrading.

Finally, I would like to apologize for raising the price of your dial by an extra five bucks! I also noticed that the day after you won it, the same Hong Kong-based seller had five more with a Buy-It-Now of $111... It looks like a good dial with crisp printing of the text and markers. The numerals are more rounded than is usual, but I've seen gen examples on which the tritium goes pretty much where it pleases. My biggest reservation concerns the '6', which appears to have levitated a bit!

Yes it does appear that way in retrospect. I think that was due to being limited to UK and not a good description. I really thought I had it, 30 seconds from the end it was sitting at

[Brightight]

Glad to hear you've got the situation taken care of I have good feelings about this project

I hope so TeeJay. I'm still a beginner in the Franken stakes, but the project is the key thing for me, I enjoy building more than wearing!

[TeeJay]

I hope so TeeJay. I'm still a beginner in the Franken stakes, but the project is the key thing for me, I enjoy building more than wearing!

I know what you mean there, the other day I dismantled my 7919 just so I could test fit the dial and movement in my 5513 case Have to admit, I did like how it looked, but I decided to keep the case for a 5513 project

[stilty]

sorry about pm being full... now resolved.

there are a couple of reasons I feel the 162XX DJ case is a good base for a 1016.

1.) you can fit a genuine tropic 22 to the case. it snaps on no problem. Only thing, is you will need to mod the smooth bezel to fit the crystal. the OD on the 22 is bigger then the OD on the 295C.

2.) the caseback gasket setup is the same on the 162XX and 1016. If you go with a 160XX it is totally different.

You just need to drill the lug holes to accept the thicker sport springbars. Also, if you really want to, you can drill and tap the tube hole to fit the older style tube and crown. I didn't bother as you can't tell unless you unscrew the crown. Looks the same with the crown screwed down.

also, the 580's fit the case nicely. I don't think they will fit the 160XX case very well. the lugs seem too thin. The 162XX lugs are thicker and look more like a 1016.

hope this helps.

[jmb]

After looking at LH's bezel sketch (best guess) it's obvious that a bezel like that will make the watch seem bigger than a 36mm and wear larger as well. I'm looking forward to receiving the case and makin' chips!

[lhooq]

Stilty, thanks for your input. To my eyes, the 1016 middle case looks identical to the 1601's from the lugholes up. The upper curve of the lugs seems like a match, and I'm pretty sure it will take a Tropic 22 with the bezel off. But below the waterline (so to speak), I can see the 1016's similarities with the 162xx: the thicker and flatter midsection, the meatier lugs, and the distinctive caseback you mentioned.

Still, I believe the 1601 ought to be a credible 1016 from most angles. It may look a bit off when viewed in side elevation, and at angles at which the caseback is visible, but I'm hoping it only confuses the sharpest-eyed Rolex observers. All it needs is a spot-on bezel to catch the eye and move attention away from the lower bits!

[stilty]

oh yes, one other thing... you can fit a 1570/non date movement in a 162XX case. The 160XX or 160X case is made for a date model 1570 or 3035.

I haven't done it personally, but I know someone that has.

One thing you have to consider with the 1601. the case is made for a pie pan dial. Shouldn't be a problem if you use a 2824-2. but if you use a 2846, you could run into problems. Also, the rehaut will be different.