Gen tube on a BK Transformer

[Cats]

It's been a bit of a disappointing day.

My BK GMT II came back form the installation of a gen crown and tube.

The movement was laying loose in the case.

When i screwed out the crown i could move the dial inside the watch head by pushing the stem .

The hands were slipping and the date changing also was slipping.

Must have had a serious blow during transport or i something else happened.

The crown was so tight that i had to open it with my teeth ( not to damage the crown ).

I never had the opportunity to look at a gen tube on a 16710 but can the experts tell me if this tube is installed correctly.

Personally i think the tube is screwed in to fat , or the countersinking is drilled to deep.

Finally the crown position after the installation of the new gen tube and crown.

Sorry for the crappy pics but i already packed the watch to send it back and i didn't want to wait another day.

Thanks already for your opinion

Carpe Diem

Cats

[By-Tor]

I have no idea about these but I took a picture of my gen (from that area). Maybe it helps?

Just quick and dirty one... didn't have much light available.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6096/img0262wz.jpg

[Tribal]

Yepp seems that the Tube is way to deep in the countersunk Tubehole. Not really a good instalation.

Sorry for u mate

[Cats]

Thanks By-Tor and Tribal for your quick response.

Oh my god the last transformer available and just what i thought the tube is in way to far.

That figures why the crown was screwed in so ridiculously tight.

Could it be that the watch smith didn't use the small silver ring which comes with the tube ??

Do you think that there is a way to get it fixed ??

Or is my 500 € for the GMT II and the tube and crown money down the drain ??

Carpe Diem

Cats

[Cats]

Forgot to ask, what about the crown position isn't that a bit to low or is this normal on a Noob case.

Carpe Diem

Cats

[By-Tor]

If you can take the tube off still and re-attach it higher I guess it's no big deal. But don't they use some kind of cement to attach it... can you remove the tube & cement without damaging it? That's the question I believe.

Tribal and other experts know for sure.

Damn this kind of stuff is frustrating. Keep us posted.

Edit: about the crown position... the crown "hat" should be above the crown guard tops. It doesn't screw all deep down on the gen, there is a very minimal gap between the case and crown when screwed in. You can only put a piece of paper between the crown and case, the gap is that small... but the crown bottom is not touching the case.

[Cats]

Thanks By-Tor i figure that can be a solution.

And yes it's frustration i was going ballistic after i had to unscrew the crown with my teeth and find out that the movement was swinging around in the case.

But that also explains , when you screw in the crown that far the stem will put a lot of pressure on the movement , let's hope that isn't damaged.

I will you keep you all posted.

Carpe Diem

Cats

[freddy333]

I agree with the others - it looks like the tube was countersunk/installed too far into your case.

I have never used any rings below a Rolex tube in any of my watches - modern or vintage & none of my gen Twinlock or Triplock tubes came with a ring. Also, none of my Rolex crown install manuals (this 1 is from the early 80s) indicate them

As long as the tube was not epoxied into the case, you should be able to unscrew it with a Rolex case tube tool or rat tail file (small, 3-sided hobby file). Unfortunately, if the hole was countersunk/drilled too deep, short of welding new metal in there, I do not know of any way to reinstall the tube 'higher'.

[By-Tor]

@Cats:

Here's a good photo of the gen by John Holmbrook (I don't have any from this angle). It shows how the crown should be positioned when it's all screwed in. It doesn't go all the way down on the 16710. Maybe your watchsmith thought it should, and that caused the problem. I guess it's just about the tube position.

[Cats]

Love this community how all the members give a quick response.

@freddy333 do you have an idea how this should be fixed ??

Carpe Diem

Cats

[Cats]

Guys another question.

Just got a word from my watch smith that he didn't uncase the movement so he doesn't understand why the movement is swinging loose in the case.

I'm not a watch smith but isn't it tricky to change a tube with the movement still in the case , especially when i look at the instruction manual from Freddy.

Carpe Diem

Cats

[freddy333]

@freddy333 do you have an idea how this should be fixed ??

As long as the tube was not epoxied into the case, you should be able to unscrew it with a Rolex case tube tool or rat tail file (small, 3-sided hobby file). Unfortunately, if the hole was countersunk/drilled too deep, short of welding new metal in there, I do not know of any way to reinstall the tube 'higher'. Though, if you are careful (& lucky), you might be able to fix the tube into the case at a more appropriate level by epoxying the tube into the case. I would use a slow-drying epoxy so you can make corrections before it dries.

Adding to By-Tor's comments -

When new, the crown on most Rolex watches screws down close to the case. However, when they (Rolex) replace the tube during a normal service, the new tube is often installed so that the crown sits slightly proud of the case, which leaves a noticeable space. This is why I install the tube in all of my Rolex watches similarly (with a space). I think it adds a bit more credibility to a watch since reps tend to have their crowns screwed down against the case.

[Tribal]

So as all others mentioned ,hope there is no cement or glue involved and the Tube can be reinstalled. Maybe there is a chance to fill the countersunk with some type of liquid metall exposy. I have done it in the past by the same problem on a watch. After this is done some drilling and retapping an I think when the Tube is installed again you can't see it.

Maybe this is no necessary hard to say from the Pics.

So Bert if u need my help let me know.

[Tribal]

Btw if drilling and retapping is needed it is a no go to do it with the movement installed.

Just my to cents.

[Cats]

Thanks for the offer Dirk i do appreciate it a lot.

I'll ask my watch smith if he's able to do it the proper way and maybe solve it like you proposed.

( he is already aware of this topic here )

After all a paid for a installation of a tube and crown

and can expect that it's done properly.

I'll keep you posted

By the way i just emailed .

Carpe Diem

Cats

[Cats]

I just examined the tube that came out of the BK GMT tranformer and i saw some white residue on the tube.

Already mailed BK if he installs the tube with epoxy or not but the residue was quit thick.

Will shoot a picture tomorrow to show the residue.

Carpe Diem

Cats

[Tribal]

@Freddy

On the factory sealed tubepackage is a small metall ring also inside.

[freddy333]

@Freddy

On the factory sealed tubepackage is a small metall ring also inside.

I guess they are only included with modern tubes, which I rarely use. Currently, I only have these 2 Twinlock tubes on-hand & the packages contain only 1 tube & 1 gasket

[Cats]

@ Freddy and Tribal.

I didn't make a picture of the packaging but there is a small metal ring inside the factory sealed packaging.

By the way should the tube hole in the case be counter sinked. If I'm not mistaken the tube is completely flat so i don't see

a reason why to countersink the case.

Could be that Noob case is counter sinked in the factory , that could explain the use of glue or epoxy on the original tube.

Carpe Diem

Cats

[FxrAndy]

I really dont see how you could safely install a new tube with the movement installed, he should have at least ran a tap through the threads to ensure they were clean and straight. Who did the work?

[Tribal]

Yes maybe thats the reason.

@Freddy yes shure only on modern Tubes

[Cats]

@ Andy.

I'm not the expert but i was also suprised that you can do work on a case without removing the movement.

Especialy when you install a different kind of tube as which was in the watch before.

I would like to keep the name of the watch smith out of the public area and give him a change to fix it.

I hope that my GMT isn't damaged so badly that i don't want to wear it anymore.

I'll keep you posted.

Carpe Diem

Cats

[kbh]

@ Freddy and Tribal.

I didn't make a picture of the packaging but there is a small metal ring inside the factory sealed packaging.

By the way should the tube hole in the case be counter sinked. If I'm not mistaken the tube is completely flat so i don't see

a reason why to countersink the case.

Could be that Noob case is counter sinked in the factory , that could explain the use of glue or epoxy on the original tube.

Carpe Diem

Cats

Reading this I couldn't help but wonder why you would need to countersink the case for a new tube either.

[freddy333]

Reading this I couldn't help but wonder why you would need to countersink the case for a new tube either.

You want the mating surfaces to contact each other over as broad an area as possible. So if the mating surface of the tube is flat, you would want the mating surface on the case to be similarly flat. If the mating surface of the tube is beveled (as many gens are), then you want to countersink the hole to provide a similar bevel to mate with the case.

In some cases, you may countersink a hole simply to lower the height of the crown (when it is closed/screwed down). However, if you countersink & use a flat-bottomed tube, then you will need to fill in the space between the bevel of the case & the bottom of the tube to insure a proper seal.

[kbh]

Thanks Freddy, I should have remembered that the gens were tapered.