V Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Well same thing that happened to Finepics last week, happened to me today on the other way around... I had a new member with 0 posts said he will buy the watch. In the meanwhile a known member from same country as me, offered to buy RIGHT NOW. I will keep my promess and wait for the other guy although i just received a 3 word PM from him... It bothers me a lot of what I should do in this case... and for how long I should wait.. The watch is a loved one and I want to go somewhere safe and sound without customs problems than dealing with an unknown member... I need your opinions guys... Mark's post here: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=12051 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Our conversation: HIS 1ST PM: If your 212 is still available I will take it. I can pay you tonight with PP. Thanks MY 1ST REPLY: Yes... It is still available.. My paypal is: XXXX@XXXX.XXX Cheers HIS 2ND REPLY: Thanks mate. MY 2ND REPLY: What is your location?? Then no reply from him... If he is in the same country with me I wouldn't think about it.. but i dont know if i should risk sending international... PLUS what is tonight? Here in UK it is tonight but maybe in USA it is not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linder Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 24 hours from the time you sent paypal information is plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonton2000 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 At the end of the day, its very admirable that you wish to keep your word to the new buyer. I'd say to just check when he was last active (online) on the forum, in relation to when you last PM'd him. Then base your decision according to that mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 24 hours from the time you sent paypal information is plenty. I agree, the clock is ticking. He has your paypal, if you don't recieve payment by this time tomorrow it seems reasonable to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Yeap.. one other thing that makes me think is that he replied with mate which means he probably is English (don't know if Americans use it as frequent as the UK guys) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 24 hours seems very fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Easy, I never hold for anyone. First come, first serve. Buyer's remorse happens too often here and it's wasting my time. Too bad you don't have a blackberry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Easy, I never hold for anyone. First come, first serve. Buyer's remorse happens too often here and it's wasting my time. Too bad you don't have a blackberry. I can't do that unfortunately.. It just doesn't seem right although sometimes I am thinking that I should do whatever is best for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 IMHO. if you accepted the person's offer you have to give him a day. And if the second person is a frequent flyer here they will understand. If international tell him it is his risk before shipping, send with tracking number and it is no longer your problem. You do know that some folks here will hold out for an experienced forum person. That is the individual's call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkerouac Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 24 hours is plenty fair to him, and to you. If I really want a watch, I wouldn't want to lose it. So I would send payment ASAP. And if there is a delay on my end, I would find a way to contact you with an explanation and asking for an extension. For example, last weekend I saw a new listing that I decided to go for. I got the seller's information, but realized I had (once again) forgotten my paypal password. So I asked them to send me a reminder or password reset link. It didn't come right away, so I decided to try yet antoher password combo -- bingo, I was able to log into paypal. But then my credit card info was not current, so I had to resubmit that information before I was able to send payment. If there had been any longer delay in logging onto paypal, or if there had been a more significant problem with my payment account information (i.e., I was unable to update this info right away) I would have contacted the seller to reassure him that I wasn't just sitting on my hands. Or, if I had to go go away from my computer for whatever reason and would be unable to complete the deal in x amount of time, I would have told him. On the other hand, if I waited two days without contacting him, I would not have been surprised to learn that he had accepted an alternate bid. It would have been fair. Take an extreme example: say my power went out for two-three days. Sure, I would be disappointed to lose my purchase to someone else, but I would not blame the seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Thing brings up the point again that I hope management would do something about... The trading board is sadly lacking etiquette guidelines or basic rules,.. If it were known that a 24 hour rule existed, taking into account timezones of course, or if arrangements were discussed, we would not be having this problem,... Another is,.. First to Post interest in purchasing, followed by immediate pm, should be allowed time to complete his buy, no matter who comes in later to offer more, or is geographically closer... I have lost many watches by some seller telling me that someone else got there first,.. even though I was the first to post interest... Lastly I would add, No Self Bumping Unless, to Lower your Price or Answer a Question.. Not to follow this basic curtesy is no different than placing your sticker add over some other members, even though you had your time in the limelight, I have written mods several time about these issues,.. but it seems that there is some fear that the board will lose business, which I feel is the opposite in reality ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Richard, I agree with you 100%. I had the exact same thing happen to me last week. We were on vacation, drove almost all day, got to our hotel, pretty tired. Fired up the laptop and got on the forum, looking over the sale watches, and there was a particular watch at a good price that the owner wanted to sell. I PM'ed him right away with a proposal that he accepted. I was the first PM, right below the initial posting. I told him that it was late, andI would send him the Paypal payment in the morning (approximately 10 hours later),The next morning before I could send the paypal, I had a message from him saying sorry the watch was no longer available, someone had PM'ed him before me. I seriously doubt that, because the night before he accepted the offer and even gave me some information as to who I could get in touch with to get a replacement crystal, as the one on the watch was cracked. I was [censored] to say the least. I have said in the past, there needs to be some rules and more sense of etiquette on the sales forum. I had a pretty good rant about 2 years back on TRC, about people who tell you, "I want the watch", then you never hear from them again. This was certainly not the case in the above transaction. I wanted the watch, only asked for a short while until the next morning, and the seller obviously either couldn't wait, or got a better offer. I believe that we should all try to be gentlemen /ladies as the case may be, on this forum. If you want instant payment, please tell the buyer in your reply email or PM that you WILL NOT wait, the first one with the cash gets the goods. Or if you are a true gentleman, if a reliable board member emails or PM's you and says "I want the watch" I believe you should give him a reasonable time to complete the transaction. I do not think that 24 hours is unreasonable. I have sold quite a few replicas as well as lots of genuine watches on these forums as well as TZ, WUS and EOT "The Lagoon". I always allow the purchaser time to make the transaction. On a couple of occasions, I have had to email someone to remind them that the watch is on hold for them, and time is of the essence. I always email all other parties that the watch is on hold, pending funds transfer and should the deal fall through, I will notify them. Sometimes it's pretty tough when you accept a lower offer and then 4-5 hours later someone comes in with a full price offer, but that's business. Folks need to remember some of the old moral values that should not need repeating, but I will. "Your word is your bond" If you tell someone yes, that means yes, not maybe or no. A deal is a deal, unless called off by both parties. The seller above made a unilateral decision to cancel my offer and go with someone elses. I was pretty angry and upset, because this is just not the way I do business. I don't do that to others and don't expect it from others. I will not say that I wouldn't attempt to buy from this individual in the future, but I wouldn't trust him. We would have to understand each other a lot better as regards the conditions of sale before I would buy from him again. And sadly this is a problem that shouldn't even exist if all the sellers and buyers played straight and fair and showed some respect for the other party. This applies to buyers as well. Please don't PM a seller and say "I want the watch", unless you are prepared to complete the deal. Better to say, I'm intersted in your watch, could you send me more photos, will you accept this price, etc. There is no grey area with " I WANT THE WATCH" It means just what it says you are buying the watch, not That you are interested or that this is the starting point for negotiating, it means, it's a done deal, no vacillating, negotiating or buyers remorse, that time is past, when you say "I WANT THE WATCH"!! Remember the seller may have half a dozen interrested buyers waiting for you, and if you go AWOL, it puts the seller in a dilema. Generally if a seller has a watch up for sale, he has a reason for selling, he's not playing around, he needs to sell the watch. Treat him with respect and in turn demand the same respect from the seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 I'm not sure that we should be moderating the private sales on the board... Seller's have the right to choose who they would prefer to do business with... It is there item, therefore there chose... If I were selling a Watch, and I had the choice of a US buyer verses a European one, I would go with the former for obvious reasons - Regardless of who PM'd me first or posted first... I would also take into consideration the reputation of the individual... No one is going to force me to commit to a transaction with a person I do not trust just because they posted "I'll take it" first... Like I said, I think you're asking to much from the Admin team here... justmy2centsforwhatitsworthwhichweallknowaintmuch TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Actually in my situation that's exactly what happened. The seller said he had several PM's from other people but selected me as I was well known and have something of a logstanding reputation. Well that being the case to then not allow sufficent time for me to pay was a joke - I also was constantly checking to see if he was on-line throughout the evening and a lot of you know that I am up until 2am most evenings so even with the time difference there is a large overlap. V - give him 24 hours. The other buyer will still buy it if he is that keen if the first buyer does not come through. I think a 24 hour rule is the best way forward on this as this is happening too many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Actually in my situation that's exactly what happened. The seller said he had several PM's from other people but selected me as I was well known and have something of a logstanding reputation. Well that being the case to then not allow sufficent time for me to pay was a joke - I also was constantly checking to see if he was on-line throughout the evening and a lot of you know that I am up until 2am most evenings so even with the time difference there is a large overlap. V - give him 24 hours. The other buyer will still buy it if he is that keen if the first buyer does not come through. I think a 24 hour rule is the best way forward on this as this is happening too many times. FP: I truly do see your position... However, I'm still convinced that it is totally unreasonable to think that the Admin Team can moderate this... And, I think it would be impossible to try and force a seller to sell to anyone other than someone they choose... TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Yeap.. one other thing that makes me think is that he replied with mate which means he probably is English (don't know if Americans use it as frequent as the UK guys) Never -- Brits and Aussies, but not Americans. You're a good guy, 24 HRs is more than enough. As far as rules and moderation goes, I suggest that we leave the mods out of it - they have more than enough to do already and they are in no position to force any seller to do anything. Reading the posts, it's very clear that there is a concensus - once a seller agrees, he's obligated and should allow 24 hrs for the buyer to make the purchase. That's reasonable and if you (whomever you happen to be) are selling something, and choose not to comport with the clear consensus of the board, I don't want to buy from you anyway. To some extent, we should be self moderating. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Reading the posts, it's very clear that there is a concensus - once a seller agrees, he's obligated and should allow 24 hrs for the buyer to make the purchase. Bill "Once a seller agrees"... Bill, this is more than reasonable... However, I agree with your assessment that it is a "self moderating" issue... In the end... What really can be done though? Do we Ban an individual because he didn't follow through with a transaction? Tough questions... TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 "Once a seller agrees"... Bill, this is more than reasonable... However, I agree with your assessment that it is a "self moderating" issue... In the end... What really can be done though? Do we Ban an individual because he didn't follow through with a transaction? Tough questions... TT This is like a small town. People pay attention and word gets around. Some time ago, I bought a Pam GMT with a 2893 that turned out to be a 2836 - I'd name the seller, as he deserves credit, but some might think he tried to pull a fast one. No doubt in my mind that he did not know and went by what he was told - PayPal was reversed as soon as I told him and before I returned the watch. That's a class act that cannot be moderated. I think our mods have enough on their plate without trying to police the "He said, she said" world of private sales disputes where there really isn't much they can do anyway - and that part is important. If people feel that mods are monitoring and controlling private sales, that would give them a false sense of security making them MORE likely to be screwed than if they realize they are on their own. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 I decided to wait 24hours.. If today at 5.00 p.m. (time of the 1st PM yesterday) has not paid me the watch goes to the other member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 In the end... What really can be done though? You, the admin team, can make a 'suggestion' and leave it to the members to enforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 My experience from this transaction is that the 1st buyer has not logged in neither send the payment in time... He may had other more important things to do or didn't had a connection but at the end he hasn't showed up.. I kept my word and waited 24 hours (well almost) and at the end nothing happened.. The watch now is packed and ready to go to the guy I wanted to give it to.. It is my fault that I have not put what I ALWAYS put on my ads.. FRIENDS and KNOWN members have priority no matter when they send the PM (unless of course it is after the payment). Thanks for your valuable input.. much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 You, the admin team, can make a 'suggestion' and leave it to the members to enforce. Exactly, Simple, Just pin a few Guidelines. People who are unknown, or troublemakers aside,... as a community we should all have equal chance at purchasing a particular watch we would like... if someone want's to play 'favorites' then let them conduct a private sale via pm... As for preference to ship only in within your country, no problem, just be sure to mention this fact in your add... On the flip side, if you agree to buy a watch, then you should have 24 hours to follow up, unless you make arrangements with the seller. These few glaring blind spots we are pointing out, are not freedom issues, buy suggestions that will make our trading board a better place for all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 @Pug @Richard Your "Suggestion" seems reasonable and fair... Let us work on some guidelines & suggestions for the Trading Zone Member section... TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 @Pug @Richard Your "Suggestion" seems reasonable and fair... Let us work on some guidelines & suggestions for the Trading Zone Member section... TT Thanks TT,... You always were the Best !... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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