The ETA movement offered in a PO rep, is it?

[rcook]

A simple question but on Joshua's site there are the two movement options, I've now read on different sites that the ETA movement is really ETA and that, no, it's just a fancier Chinese knockoff than the other chinese 21j movement. Now I understand that I'm buying a rep and while it would be awesome if the movement was a real swiss ETA 2842 I also wouldn't be upset if it weren't. Given the restriction that ETA is now putting on selling movements are rep makers really getting ETA movements, though it would be super ironic that a rep Omega would have a real ETA movement.

So I guess the question really is this. On a rep watch that doesn't have a see-through caseback is it worth paying the extra $50 for an ETA (if it is ETA) movement or is the Chinese 21j movement fine?

[Noel Fleischer]

Hi; the Asian movement you would get is not a 21J. It would be a 'clone' of the 25J ETA, different

animal. Another story is -will you get a gen ETA from the dealers? Sometimes yes, but often no. Personally,

I prefer the gen movements when possible. Many people have given up the guessing game and stick to the clones.

If you want a real movement try to get one with a SW-200, they have not been cloned yet as far as I know.

Your right, ETA has been cutting the supply of movements to non Swatch companies.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Noel Fleischer

[Jkay]

Dealers offer ETA, Clone ETA and pure Asian movements .. I think you are slightly mistaken and are unaware of the ETA clone option.

Forum approved dealers who sell you the wrong movement intentionally will not be forum dealers for long. Why trust them if they are not trustworthy.

[Guest tolis]

mine its gen ETA!!!!!!

[plaifender]

A simple question but on Joshua's site there are the two movement options, I've now read on different sites that the ETA movement is really ETA and that, no, it's just a fancier Chinese knockoff than the other chinese 21j movement. Now I understand that I'm buying a rep and while it would be awesome if the movement was a real swiss ETA 2842 I also wouldn't be upset if it weren't. Given the restriction that ETA is now putting on selling movements are rep makers really getting ETA movements, though it would be super ironic that a rep Omega would have a real ETA movement.

So I guess the question really is this. On a rep watch that doesn't have a see-through caseback is it worth paying the extra $50 for an ETA (if it is ETA) movement or is the Chinese 21j movement fine?

Think you're uninformed. The question has nothing to do with see-through caseback or not. The movement issue is quite complicated. The basica Asian 21j is not a copy of any ETA swiss movement. It's a basic chinese movement that costs about $20 new from any watch supplier.

The ETA swiss movement is also readily available online and from many suppliers. An ETA-2824 can cost from anywhere between $90-140usd new and unused.

The ETA clone movement, is a chinese movement replicated by chinese factories often based on the ETA-2824. The movement is generally considered very good if serviced and many parts of it are interchangeable with the Swiss models, although not many.

The ETA7750 is also "cloned" in a chinese version, although it's not nearly as close to being a clone as the 2824 models.

In my opinion, going for the GEN ETA is always a good move if you think you're going to keep a watch for quite a while. With proper servicing cleaning and lubrication, the swiss movement could last you a lifetime.

[planatlas]

I think is clone movement.

[rcook]

Dealers offer ETA, Clone ETA and pure Asian movements .. I think you are slightly mistaken and are unaware of the ETA clone option.

Forum approved dealers who sell you the wrong movement intentionally will not be forum dealers for long. Why trust them if they are not trustworthy.

I don't currently have enough posts to link so this will be less direct than normal. In the "PO 42mm Ultimate" thread, from the seller discussed in the thread which I'm assuming is 'Joshua' at the 'pc8838' website there are 2 movements offered a "Nickel Plated Swiss ETA 2824-2 Automatic Movement" and the other being a "Asian 2824-2 25j" clone, which I assume to be most likely a Seagull clone or Hanzou? So my question is this, is the "Swiss" movement as offered really an ETA 2824-2 similar to what I could buy from ofrei?

Given that Joshua doesn't label the movement as a 'Clone ETA' then I am safe to assume that it is a gen ETA 2824-2? Also given that Joshua has his own section on this site I can safely assume that he is considered trustworthy by RWG?

[rcook]

Think you're uninformed. The question has nothing to do with see-through caseback or not. The movement issue is quite complicated. The basica Asian 21j is not a copy of any ETA swiss movement. It's a basic chinese movement that costs about $20 new from any watch supplier.

The ETA swiss movement is also readily available online and from many suppliers. An ETA-2824 can cost from anywhere between $90-140usd new and unused.

The ETA clone movement, is a chinese movement replicated by chinese factories often based on the ETA-2824. The movement is generally considered very good if serviced and many parts of it are interchangeable with the Swiss models, although not many.

The ETA7750 is also "cloned" in a chinese version, although it's not nearly as close to being a clone as the 2824 models.

In my opinion, going for the GEN ETA is always a good move if you think you're going to keep a watch for quite a while. With proper servicing cleaning and lubrication, the swiss movement could last you a lifetime.

The see through caseback was mostly a joke though it does have merit. If I can't see the movement AND if the movement is not a gen ETA why bother paying more for something that I can't see? Honestly if it were offered and would work the Seiko 7s26 would almost be preferred simply given that it will work forever (figuratively) with little to no servicing.

[plaifender]

I don't currently have enough posts to link so this will be less direct than normal. In the "PO 42mm Ultimate" thread, from the seller discussed in the thread which I'm assuming is 'Joshua' at the 'pc8838' website there are 2 movements offered a "Nickel Plated Swiss ETA 2824-2 Automatic Movement" and the other being a "Asian 2824-2 25j" clone, which I assume to be most likely a Seagull clone or Hanzou? So my question is this, is the "Swiss" movement as offered really an ETA 2824-2 similar to what I could buy from ofrei?

Given that Joshua doesn't label the movement as a 'Clone ETA' then I am safe to assume that it is a gen ETA 2824-2? Also given that Joshua has his own section on this site I can safely assume that he is considered trustworthy by RWG?

Yes you're correct. The term "clone" is used by us to describe the Chinese Seagull movement that has high compatibility with the Swiss 2824 movement. Seagull is a chinese movement manufacturer that produces high quality movements based on swiss complications. But I think there are even clones of the Seagulls!

As you can see it gets quite complicated when it comes to movements.

In regards to your last statement, Josh can be trusted, and is a trusted dealer here. (one of MANY). So far, it appears that Josh and Andrew are the only ones offering the new PO 42mm, but many might be following suit very soon.

As Jkay and others have stated there's confusion out there, but the ETA model is probably your best bet if you plan to make this watch a keeper

Good luck!

[rcook]

Yes you're correct. The term "clone" is used by us to describe the Chinese Seagull movement that has high compatibility with the Swiss 2824 movement. Seagull is a chinese movement manufacturer that produces high quality movements based on swiss complications. But I think there are even clones of the Seagulls!

As you can see it gets quite complicated when it comes to movements.

In regards to your last statement, Josh can be trusted, and is a trusted dealer here. (one of MANY). So far, it appears that Josh and Andrew are the only ones offering the new PO 42mm, but many might be following suit very soon.

As Jkay and others have stated there's confusion out there, but the ETA model is probably your best bet if you plan to make this watch a keeper

Good luck!

Thank you, I'm going to wait for some reviews of the new batch of PO's and go from there.

[b.diddy]

I just got the new 45mm UPO Swiss ETA from Joshua, and I'm not impressed with the movement...

I still have yet to actually open the case back up, but from what I can see the self-winding feature is no good and will not automatically wind easily with regular movement of your wrist. Not sure what the problem for this is or if it can be easily fixed.

[plaifender]

I just got the new 45mm UPO Swiss ETA from Joshua, and I'm not impressed with the movement...

I still have yet to actually open the case back up, but from what I can see the self-winding feature is no good and will not automatically wind easily with regular movement of your wrist. Not sure what the problem for this is or if it can be easily fixed.

the "self-winding feature"... is called an AUTOMATIC movement.

Take it up with josh and I'm sure he'll make things right.

Your problem is not a general problem of the watch, it sounds like a specific problem with your specific movement.

p.s. Does your watch not function? low power reserve? Does it start and stop? Some symptoms could help us identify your prob

[FxrAndy]

One good point for the clone that it will be new

An ETA may well be old stock that is in need of a service any way

There is some interesting info here about asian movements, it is a bit of a read but well worth it and there is link later on in that post to a more in depth look

personaly i am not put off by the asian movement at all

[rcook]

One good point for the clone that it will be new

An ETA may well be old stock that is in need of a service any way

There is some interesting info here about asian movements, it is a bit of a read but well worth it and there is link later on in that post to a more in depth look

personaly i am not put off by the asian movement at all

Now that's an interesting point that does warrant consideration, age of the movement I would never have thought of that.

I just have this odd feeling that there is no way your going to get a real ETA movement from a rep site. ETA 2824 movements, though basic workhorses, still command a premium in gen watches so I can't see how a rep will sell for less than a gen watch with the same movement. If, for example, the rep PO sold for $500+ and was verified to have a gen ETA 2824-2 movement I'd believe that. I know however that finding a new gen watch with a 2824-2 under $500 is almost impossible so I just can't believe that the rep is going to have a gen ETA movement. I've owned gen watches with gen 2824 movements before and aside from buying used there is no way that I found to get one under $500. The rep dealers have to know this as well, the market will and does support a certain price for watches with gen ETA 2824 movements. Rep or not a businessman is not going to give up money out of kindness.

Again, I'll wait for reviews on the latest model of the 42mm PO and see what people are saying but I'm thinking that the Asian movement might be the way to go.

Edited December 15, 2010 by rcook

[FxrAndy]

You can get a real ETA in a rep no problems, made in and ETA factory be that in switzerland or asia (where they used to have factorys)it is just that tbey are gettingharder too get hold of and i think many are being taken out of old stock of unsold watches as we keep seeing older movements, also dirty ones or ones that the oil has emulsified.

[FxrAndy]

An ETA 2824 can be bought for about €50 plus tax if you buy them in the 1000s

[Jkay]

I just have this odd feeling that there is no way your going to get a real ETA movement from a rep site. ETA 2824 movements, though basic workhorses, still command a premium in gen watches so I can't see how a rep will sell for less than a gen watch with the same movement.

That's easy. You are paying too much for watches. You would be surprised how inexpensive it is to make a watch.

If I can buy a single ETA 2824 from a retailer in Switzerland for $117 **shipped** on eBay .. how much do you think they are in bulk quantities, as a factory would purchase them? Less than half of that.

Can you see now where the $500 you spent on your Swiss ETA watch went? Right into a laughing man's pocket.

A decent quality Asia 21j powered replica can be had for $50 on the streets of South East Asia. That's with the factory's and the vendor's profits added in. Add in the price of a swiss ETA purchased in bulk, and you are crowning up over $120.

I'm not sure what your point is with this statement, actually .. the replica watch community has been around for years, and many of us here are qualified watch makers, watch repair people, etc ... how can you simply state that you "don't believe" it's possible to buy an ETA in a watch for less than $500 ?

I hope your stay here is a good one, and that you enjoy the pieces you purchase. There are hundred of photos here of genuine ETA watch movements in replicas bought by members. You can look at them if you like.

FYI the least expensive (but still good quality) replica I can think of is the NoobFactory Swiss ETA 2836 powered NoobMariner for $138

[plaifender]

I agree 100% with Jkay..

Not sure what you mean to say by your statement.. You DO REALIZE that you're on the most informative timekeeping site on the internet right? We've got experts, watchmakers, collectors, modders and enthusiasts of both GEN and REP alike. Whether or not you "FEEL" that it's too good to be true that a rep watch has a real swiss movement is out of the question. We're all here to tell you that your gut "FEELING" is just.. well.. wrong.

Like many have said.. Do you know how much an ETA-2824 movement costs? Secondly.. lots of the major watch brands don't use straight "stock" ETA movements. Breitling and the likes go to the lengths of modifying many of their movements, so that if something goes wrong, you have to get it fixed or replaced by them. Even though the movement may be 95% stock ETA.

Secondly.. If you don't believe that it's possible to buy a quality replica with swiss movement.. why are you here? Something must have attracted you. If it wasn't the quality information.. what was it??? haha

Lastly.. Take your time and read. I may be an old crab around here, but I always insist that noobs take 2 weeks to a month of pure reading time before posting things like this.. There's simply too much information on here (that many would consider basic) for you to post questions like this for. If you'd really dedicated this month to being informed, you'd already know the movement possibilities of many of the replicas here..

Please don't let me discourage you though. Keep reading and learning, and you'll be glad you stayed!

[rcook]

I hope your stay here is a good one, and that you enjoy the pieces you purchase. There are hundred of photos here of genuine ETA watch movements in replicas bought by members. You can look at them if you like.

Lastly.. Take your time and read. I may be an old crab around here, but I always insist that noobs take 2 weeks to a month of pure reading time before posting things like this.. There's simply too much information on here (that many would consider basic) for you to post questions like this for. If you'd really dedicated this month to being informed, you'd already know the movement possibilities of many of the replicas here..

Please don't let me discourage you though. Keep reading and learning, and you'll be glad you stayed!

I have searched, that's why I asked. I've been reading here and at RepGeeks (which I might add there is enough cross over with members and posts that they might as well be one site) and I've read different information stating that the 'Swiss' movement is actually just a fancier Asian clone and not Swiss at all. I've been using the internet, if you can call it that back then, since the days of Gopher I'm not a noob by any stretch I just haven't been at this site very long. Look a month of reading/searching wont answer my question because all the searching I do seems to just contradict itself. I've tried to find a photo of Joshua's 42mm PO with a gen Swiss ETA 2824 movement in it but I haven't found a thread that shows me a pic of a new watch, not modded, that is indeed what I'm looking for.

I have every intention of buying that watch I just want to know if it's worth spending the extra $50 on what I'm unable to verify is indeed a gen Swiss ETA movement, so far in this thread there is nothing but hearsay. I'll just email Joshua directly as that would seem to be the only way to be certain.

[hackR]

wow...a lot of good info...

all i'll add is to beware that there are also hybrid movements...swiss/eta baseplates and chinese components, etc...swineese....

as a senior member once said, assume its not really an eta movement unless you see it come out of the packaging...

[rcook]

From the horses mouth so to speak:

Hi.

yes Swiss eta.. All pics are loaded on the website..

The pics shown on my site is indeed swiss eta.

joshua

So that clears it up then.