rolli Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 ??? Genuine Bezel Shape Construction could it be that the genuine bezel shape construction is like on the 201A technical drawing ?????? the upper bezel edge phase ( A ) is wider than the lower bezel edge phase ( B ) ??????? see also the pictures with the genuine 201A and the 001A. and with the genuine pam 005. 1.) have the different panerai models and versions different bezel shape constructions ???????? 2.) could the genuine panerai owners measure the both bezel-edge-phases A + B ???????? and which panerai model + serie it is. thanks rolli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Mate thats a question.... here is part of a statement from a respected Risti... You start on PreVs which has a different bezel construction to the Pre-V 5218-209, Pre-V 5218-210 and pre-A OP6500 these have the same case & crownguard. The case and crownguard are a little different for the OP-6502 reference (50-60% of pre-A, A-series, and approx. 50% of B-series), although only a trained eye can notice the differences. Halfway the B-series, they split-up the case references: OP6518, OP6519, OP6520 and OP6521 are a little different from OP6502 cases, but they continued using the same OP6502 crownguard. ...Then I believe cases changed again around F-G but of course these are manuals the autos have a larger base to the bezel to allow for the movement... Here is a PreV and Auto (Courtesy of Risti Reference) Having got some great info from Mike, He explained that in fact the JF case bezel is actually closer to the PreV than the contemporary that its suppose to replicate, I had always assumed these to be bigger from pics I have seen.. From what I have read it all comes down to which series you want there is no hard and fast rule so do you have a particular case you are trying to replicate?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I think the Jimmy bezel and how it comes off the case is closer to the Pre-V but the lugs and where they fall on the case are way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I think the Jimmy bezel and how it comes off the case is closer to the Pre-V but the lugs and where they fall on the case are way off. Sorry I should of been clearer...I was only referring to the bezel on the JF nothing else... Thats why the 111J as pointed out by W0lf and Babs makes a great starting point for a PREV case project.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 could you read my questions again. on the tech drawing and the pictures have the upper and lower bezel edge phases different measures. is this correct ??? rolli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 could you read my questions again. on the tech drawing and the pictures have the upper and lower bezel edge phases different measures. is this correct ??? rolli Apologies mate. I read your two questions and tried to answer question 1) I was going to measure my gens bezels but unfortunately non are the PreV case that you refer too..so I cant help..Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 no..no.. the prev was only an example for my question. i want to know, have all bezels the different upper and lower phase measures. rolli Apologies mate. I read your two questions and tried to answer question 1) I was going to measure my gens bezels but unfortunately non are the PreV case that you refer too..so I cant help..Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeroshiki Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) no..no.. the prev was only an example for my question. i want to know, have all bezels the different upper and lower phase measures. rolli hi there, i can help you with the answer.. i currently have 112K and 112M with me.. the bezel spacing on A is different, with M being wider.. the spacing on B is exactly the same.. not only the bezel are different, there are other differences i've noticed(feel free for anyone to copy paste and create a new topic if the info is good enough to share, don't forget to credit): for illustration purposes, here's my 112K: DSC_9315 (1) by loelianbao, on Flickr and here's an exact same sample of my 112M:(there are some other same sample such as item number 300502613742) http://cgi.ebay.com/PANERAI-PAM112-M-LUMINOR-BASE-44MM-PAM-112-BRAND-NEW-/400195383967?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item5d2d80f29f the most noticeable one is the hands, compare the hands and you will see 112M has pre-V style hands with longer lume marker on the tips, and the K has normal modern lume marker, not all M series has this, but some samples does, and not sure if it's only M specific series or it's also happens on the previous series. next is the crown guard lever, on the 112M it is thinner, you can see the difference on the notch holding the crown.., another clear sample of K series thicker CG lever, last two pictures of the listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/Panerai-Luminor-Base-Historic-PAM-112-K-44mm-Watch-/110647512062?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item19c31b0bfe still on the CG difference, the notch for finger to pull(less noticeable).., the roller ball is highly polished on the M, and brushed on the K, nicer on the K as it's almost invisible to the eye. other differences: less noticeable from just pictures and could be seen easier in person, is the dial black paint are different, color is the same, but 112K have thicker paint with emboss effect on the circle area of the 6, 9, or the curved area of 12.., the sandwich has an embossed effect which is beautiful.. while the 112M paint on the dial seems flat. lastly on CG, the crown on M seems fatter because the squared hollow spacing for crown is smaller. this is also very miniscule and not noticeable. onto the crystal.. the only difference is AR. on M serie is more blue/neutral, while the K serie i have has amber-gray-ish tint on AR, it's very hard to describe other than cooler on M, hotter on K. personal rant: i prefer the K, bought the M for the very nice serial number, a triplet.. and originally planned to let the K go.. now i'm not so sure anymore.. and want to keep both but i don't think that's possible.. Edited February 24, 2011 by zeroshiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 could you give me the measurement ( A ) and ( B ) in mm ??? rolli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I am waiting for my callipers to come back mate... I will measure a couple tomorrow for you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drulee Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 When I first joined the rep forums I used to always comment on how most of the rep bezels were too high (B on your diagram). I can usually tell most reps by how 'chunky' the case build looks. Gen design and manufacture usually results in a more streamlined case/bezel build, which makes the case appear lower in height even when dealing with large watches .. simply a part of good design. I stopped making remarks about it though as most members just stated it was hardly noticeable (though very noticeable to me ), and spent more time commenting on slight font imperfections which in my opinion were much less noticeable. I believe most of the gen PAM bezels are also more rounded in the "B area", contributing to the slimmer look. So far only JimmyFu and EddieLee cases seem to have the right bezel height and shape - for manual cases. For auto cases, I find that a combination of the old Ultimate base case with a the latest DSN low profile bezel is the best build. I also sand the edges (top and bottom of "B") a bit to make them a bit more rounded. Just my opinion of course As for the O.P., I believe that earlier series (pre F or G) bezels are less rounded in the "B" area than the later series bezel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Doc Although I agree with most of what your saying and I actually remember reading your comments on the bezels because to be honest it confused the hell out of me.. I was discussing the bezel issue with W0lf in the last week or so as he is helping me with advice on me putting together my 202a...We were chatting about bezels as all my reference pics indicated something different to the comments I have read.. It turns out, against what I thought, that the JF bezel is actual closer to the PreV than it is to the contemporary cases of which it is suppose to be a 1:1 with, I had always thought the PreV had a larger area around the base than the contemporary cases but from first hand experience that is not the case (no pun intended!) So yes the JF bezel is correct but not for the contemporary case that the mid case is correct for, the JF bezel is more correct for a PreV the mid case is better for the PreA and B series on.. The roundness at the edge is dependent on case series and is one of those minor variations that I quoted in my first post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drulee Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Thanks for clearing that up. Wasn't too sure about JF, as I've never had one. Also don't have any PreV PAMs. The Eddie Lee cases I have all have the slightly rounded bezel edge, which is good for what I'm using them for. But I could use a better case for a couple of my PreA, A, and B builds - any suggestions on which of the latest look the closest (minus hex crown tube of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 here two pictures with the pam 177M serie. you see the different upper ( A ) and lower ( B ) bezel-edge-phase measurement. rolli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flex Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Great info. I had thought that the gen Pre-V has shorter B area and more rounded shape. EL case bezel seems to be the best when it's shaved down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 i need measuremets from ( A ) + ( B ) rolli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Rolf I tried to use my callipers mate but I couldnt get the measurements, well not with out taking off the bezels and I really dont want to do that mate... I could try marking off with small piece of paper on edge and fine mark to end but that would not be accurate just indicative... I assume you want exact.. If you have any suggestions I am willing to try mate You aint going to get a PreV measurement of that I am pretty certain I am not sure how to help on those measurements mate..I wish I could.. @Doc Here is a pic of a JF and the new 111J courtesy of Mike (Hope you dont mind mate) Going by the bezels you can see how well the 111 stacks up for the PreV then looking at the lugs you can see these are more suited to PreV after some reshaping also edges and pillows... but the JF mid case is almost spot on to gen contemporary so the 111J by comparison is not so easily suited to 6500, 6502 cases and onwards Having compared a gen contemporary to the 111J and 219L I would prefer the 219 for contemporary cases and going by the lugs and pillows etc it looks closer to gen contemporary and in turn to 6500, 6502 cases etc IMHO. Of course the 219 bezel forms part of the midcase as I assume it will for all Hublot factory reps.... (They aint going to change it now!) So you cant mix and match or construct the build in the same way as a gen...so on that basis the 219 is at a disadvantage. But I think despite that and the slighly bigger bottom bezel edge I would think the shape would better suit the contemporary, I am sure other have opinions but those are just my own take with the cases in my hand.. I should of put a JF in that comparison as well !! Here are some pics to highlight what I mean (these are from the pics I took on the comparison thread) Note the pillows, the lugs and the edges etc Sorry Rolf I am not trying to TC mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 It turns out, against what I thought, that the JF bezel is actual closer to the PreV than it is to the contemporary cases of which it is suppose to be a 1:1 with Pete, your your original thoughts weren't far off the mark, though. The JF caseset (bezel included) is the correct replication of the 001C model Jimmy owned and got it replicated from. Yes the bezel is also very close to pre-V bezel profile but it covers a very wide range of Pam models that followed, including pre-A, and many more contemporary series. I wouldn't single it out for a particular series. What isn't exactly 1:1 on Jimmy's case is the lugs, they only match closely C-F series manual Pams, but most of us know that by now so this isn't anything new. So to cut it short, JFu bezel has a wide range of application in across the range from pre-V to some later contemporaries like F-series. In rep world, when building the "ultimate" pre-V and selecting the best available parts for the case you're be likely to find is the older EL case with chunkier lugs and correct corner slope that came with his 000/005 Logos, matched with the JFu bezel. Also, 2nd gen OP6500/6502 EL that followed in '06) would provide the best and closest visual fit. 111J bezel is also great fit for pre-V, if not even better than the one from '06 EL OP6500/6502 case. The issue with said EL chunky case is that the bezel profile (B measurement Rolli is referring to in his post) is slightly higher and the slope is just a tad off for a pre-V. It's likely the 111J would fit that old chunky EL "Logo" case well, I haven't tried this yet but the bezel assembly construction looks almost identical between the two. That said, if you happen to have old EL Logo case, you should try softening the edges on the case and bottom bezel ring to make it closer to the 'real' pre-V case that used to have softer finish all round. That would also take the "edge" (no pun intended) from the bezel and make it appear a little thinner in profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drulee Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 PeteM, thanks for that info. I should know this , but just to be sure when you say contemporary are you referring to A series or later? Also, what you may want to do in order to help Rolli out, is just take a measurement of the entire case set height (without caseback, and to top of bezel not crystal). Then using the image one can calculate, by proportion, the requested measurements .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 PeteM, thanks for that info. I should know this , but just to be sure when you say contemporary are you referring to A series or later? Also, what you may want to do in order to help Rolli out, is just take a measurement of the entire case set height (without caseback, and to top of bezel not crystal). Then using the image one can calculate, by proportion, the requested measurements .... Of course I remember that from school - Ratios !!! Now I must off and have a go Yes mate sorry thats what I meant with contemporarys, after PreV came the 6500 case then 6502...6518 etc though 2 PreVs carried this case then its just variations on a theme after that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 You guys crack me up, seriously I'm glad that course of ECT sorted my OCD once an for all. I pity the poor noob who stumbles in to this thread, he wil turn straight around shaking his head in disbelief at you nutters. So Rollie has anyone given you and answer to you A's and B's yet ? Cos it seems a pretty straight forward question thats turned into a pontificating pi55ing contest. But it aint gonna be easy cos you'll need to not only get the bezel off but the Crystal out and not many Gen owners will be stepping up to that job to quickly and the reality wil be Micron differences not even in the mm's range. Throwing my hat in to the ring , its the Angle of the bezel edge and therefore distance between A2 and B1 that you should be looking for the length C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Blimey ST....Thats rich.... Now its a bleeding trigonometrey lesson !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Thought it would shut you lot up for a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Thought it would shut you lot up for a bit Shut me up...?????? Mate after reading that I cant even remember my name !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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