mjmurphy926 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 So I was bored tonight and decided to mix and match parts from the 111J and the 005. From 111J: case crown second hand (I'll explain why below) movement CG screws From 005: caseback crystal hour and minute hands lug screws From neither: V-CG I also want to mention how lucky I am and how tough these parts seem to be. While trying each of the crown/stems, I forgot that I only put 1 movement clamp in and that wasn't even tightened. I'm not quit sure why, but I turned the watch crystal side up, and with no caseback on, I pulled the crown/stem out and the guts went crashing to the hardwood floor. The hands and dial flew off the movement and scattered across the floor. After cursing for a several minutes, I got down on the floor to see if I could find the parts and asses the damage expecting to have to buy a new 005. To my surprise, nothing was damaged in the slightest! My only problem was that I couldn't find the 005 second hand. That's why I had to install the crappy lumed 111J second hand. I reassembled everything and buttoned it up. I'll have to find a super lumed handset somewhere, but all in all, I feel very fortunately to have it on my wrist right now. The reason I installed a V-CG was that the angle of the 005 CG feet isn't the same as the angle of the 111J case where the CG mounts. There was a slightly noticeable gap at the outer edges between the CG and case. I didn't want to file the CG feet to make it fit, because I'll probably put the 005 guts back in it's original case after I disassemble and reassemble that case just to see how it's built. Besides, the CG lever was tight to start with and the crown was almost right up against the case and filing the feet would only accentuate that. The V-CG doesn't have a roller lever and the finish isn't quite as nice as the 005 CG, but it fits nicely and the crown is the proper distance from the case. It also closes with a nice click that isn't too tight. My 111J CG was finished horribly, so I didn't even try it. Here are some quick pictures in terrible lighting. I'm pretty happy with the overall look. The caseback actually fits better on this case than on the 005 case. It seems to bottom out on the 005 case without the gasket doing much. On the 111J case, it goes on nice and smooth and you can feel the gasket when you tighten it. The AR and clarity of the 005 crystal is simply awesome. It's probably the best rep crystal I've ever seen. Also, the gap between the crown and the case looks pretty good with this combo. Another shot emphasizing the sweet crystal which fits perfectly in the 111J case with the 111J gasket. I still got big love for the old V-CG. If there was any doubt before, you can see from how far the 005 lug screws are recessed in the 111J lugs that the lugs are actually quite a bit thicker on the 111J case. These screws are pretty much flush on the 005 case. I hope some of you can get some useful information out of this. Tomorrow...rip apart the 005 case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polaris Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Looking great! Those fat lugs make a huge [and improved] difference imo. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Beeeauuutiful mate. That last picture gets me as excited as dropping the parts on the floor and not being able to find the second hand would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Great job Murph Not something I would attempt....unless it was your watch So is it staying like that now ?? Was it the construction of the case that made you change it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Thanks all. Great job Murph Not something I would attempt....unless it was your watch So is it staying like that now ?? Was it the construction of the case that made you change it? I don't know if it's staying this way or not Pete...For a little while at least. What actually made me swap was just my curiosity to see how the H-factory crystal fits in the 111J case. I knew it would fit, I just didn't know if I would have to swap gaskets and wanted to find out. From there, I decided to go all the way. I'm pretty disappointed in the fact that the CG from the H-factory case isn't a straight swap though. The only things I wish I could change on the 111J case set are the strap dimples and the bezel profile. I think the flat ring at the top of the bezel is just a tad thin. This also makes the angle of the bezel just slightly too flat IMHO. I think it gives the bezel the appearance of being a touch wider than modern gen and H factory bezels even though it's really not. As for the H-factory case, I don't like the thin lugs and I really don't like the construction. I agree with you and the others that think the 111J case is superior and it will be the base for my future projects. I'm going to send Josh and/or Andrew an email and ask if the 111J caseset is available for purchase, as well as the H-factory crystal. If not, I see myself buying at lease 2 more of each to take the parts I want and sell off the rest. Now I have to figure out a nice CG combo (CG body and lever) to go with the 111J case. I'm going to have to get a 111J case DLCd too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Forgive my ignorance, but why do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Plenty to look forward to then Murph Thanks for reply mate Totally agree re the quality of the 111 case but I dont think its the better contemporary case... Having put the manual contemporary Gen, the Hublot and Noob cases next to each other I prefer the HB factory case, the lugs are much closer plus the pillows and edges..the only thing that lets it down IMHO is the construction.. I am only referring to contemporary cases in that respect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Plenty to look forward to then Murph Thanks for reply mate Totally agree re the quality of the 111 case but I dont think its the better contemporary case... Having put the manual contemporary Gen, the Hublot and Noob cases next to each other I prefer the HB factory case, the lugs are much closer plus the pillows and edges..the only thing that lets it down IMHO is the construction.. I am only referring to contemporary cases in that respect... Good to know Pete...I'm learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Forgive my ignorance, but why do this? Just playing Mickey. Trying to see which parts are interchangeable. I haven't figured out which parts will be in my final 005 version. Also, I love to play with Luminors. They have simple movements and are easy to work on...and they are relatively cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Yeah I hear you, I play around with unbranded PAM case sets/dials etc too Had the new PAM005K for a day, but it was faulty, so back it went. It was a damn fine rep, the case/crystal and overal build quality was amazing, aside from gen parts, I think and "upgrades" would be a lateral move at best! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemonster Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Mickey, while OP was just doing this to experiment, a cannibalization of certain parts of these 2 models would make the 005 uber indistinguishable from gen. They are from 2 different factories and hence have slight variances. What I would do and why to build the perfect 005K: - use the movt. from the 111J- this J factory uses a higher grade Seagull 6497, it's high vs. low beat and has an accurately shaped swan neck vs. needle regulator, the OP markings are also engraved vs. printed onto the movt. plates. - use the crown from the 111J- it has a more pronounced bevel to the teeth, which makes it appear a tad thinner per gen. - caveat to the above, the crown tubes & crowns are machined differently b/w the 2 factories, so I think each crown must be used w/it's respective case, so you would have to use the 111J case, which has slightly more pronounced strap notches, but unless your strap is invisible, who cares? The biggest benefit would be that the crown & case combo of the J factory gives you perfect space, allowing a peek of the hexagonal crown tube, per gen- whereas the H factory is both crown is both a hair too thick/ squarish and pressed too close to the case. - use the CG from the 111J, it's roller ball tip is more accurate, the H factory's tip is too thick & bulbous. The V CG w/ standard tip is generally inaccurate for a K-series, although I believe some of the early K serials had a non roller tip. Edited February 25, 2011 by eddiemonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I hear you, but after studying the rep pictures of the various models, that are huge in comparison to the real watches remember, I can't see and major "glaring" differences. Any swaps in parts won't change anything for me, even after checking all the threads. So bearing that in mind, how would the majority of genuine watch owners tell the different, or just the general public? The answer is, they wouldn't, it's a hell of a rep So the 005K good enough for me straight from the box, and playing with parts would just be for the fun of it in my book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 the H factory is both crown is both a hair too thick/ squarish and pressed too close to the case. The H-factory crown is thinner than the gen. It just looks thicker because it doesn't have the same bevel as the gen. I can't see and major "glaring" differences. Any swaps in parts won't change anything for me, even after checking all the threads. So bearing that in mind, how would the majority of genuine watch owners tell the different, or just the general public? The answer is, they wouldn't, it's a hell of a rep While the H-factory case does look better, it's case construction is inferior towards the noob case and not the same as gen, thus making it probably more prone to water damages. Since the parts are only friction fitted, assembling and disassembling several times might shave just enough of the material off to cause problems.. check the various threads regarding this topic.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 - caveat to the above, the crown tubes & crowns are machined differently b/w the 2 factories, so I think each crown must be used w/it's respective case. Actually the crown/stem from each case seems to fit the other case tube just fine. I wasn't able to check for water tightness, but the feel of the crown sliding through the tube felt pretty much the same. The biggest problem is that you can't use the unmodded crown from one case with the unmodded CG from the other case because the distance between the leading edge of the roller to the base of the CG feet where it attaches to the case are not the same. The H-factory CG + 111J crown won't close because it is too tight and the other way around with the 111J CG + H-factory crown. Correcting this may be as simple as adjusting stem length, but that won't solve the crown to case issue with the 005. - The V CG w/ standard tip is generally inaccurate for a K-series, although I believe some of the early K serials had a non roller tip. I have seen pictures of 005 K series that have non-roller CGs. I read somewhere that the serial numbers of the non-roller models was sub 200, but nobody could pinpoint exactly when it happened. My SN is 162, so it's possible that the V-CG might actually be more accurate, but it's kind of a mute point as I plan on using a roller lever in the end. So the 005K good enough for me straight from the box, and playing with parts would just be for the fun of it in my book Yeah...I change my mind almost hourly. I will say though that I was blown away by what I saw when I opened my 005 box. Maybe I'll just order another 005 and leave it bone stock as my primary 005 and use this one and the other parts from this 005 for toying and possible DLCing or possible pre-v build. I'll have to talk to rolli and Avitt to see which case they recommend DLCing (I'm guessing 111J, but who knows?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Yeah, it's easy to get carried away playing with these watches, but really we forget that we should just wear them, especially when they're this good from the get go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Yeah, it's easy to get carried away playing with these watches, but really we forget that we should just wear them, especially when they're this good from the get go! +1 BTW, I downloaded a pic of an M series 000 that is a very similar angle to one of my shots from last night. I realize the M serial has a roller CG, but i thought the profile of these 2 shots was pretty damn close. Forgive the shallow depth of field in my shot. It is pretty dark in my office so I shot this at f/1.8. Gen 000M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 The problemwith that shot is its slightly angled down so it gives the appearance of the lugs being squatter the best way to see this optical effect is to look at the base of the bezel and how deep it looks... You can see how much the lugs change in this pic of 111 Notice the left lug this is more like how the lug looks in your hand its the same shape as the comparison pics I posted...Even the slightest of angles can fgive a false impression of that lug shape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Exactly, just another reason not to worry about it, at least they are not short and stubby lugs like with DSN's cases! Some of these flaws and/or differences I see being discussed are infinitesimal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 The problemwith that shot is its slightly angled down so it gives the appearance of the lugs being squatter the best way to see this optical effect is to look at the base of the bezel and how deep it looks... You can see how much the lugs change in this pic of 111 Notice the left lug this is more like how the lug looks in your hand its the same shape as the comparison pics I posted...Even the slightest of angles can fgive a false impression of that lug shape Yeah...that's why your comparison shots are great Pete, because you don't have to wonder how different light, camera/lens combo, aperture and exposure settings can create illusions in the pictures. The only suggestion I might make is that if you do comparison shots again, maybe you could place the camera on a tripod, place each case separately on a marked spot on the surface you are you are photographing on, and shoot them one at a time. Don't get me wrong, your shots are great and I thank you for them as I've referenced them several times, but all wide angle lenses have some degree of barrel distortion that increases as you move further out from center. So, the 2 cases on the outside will have this affect applied similarly and can be accurately compared to each other, but the case in the middle will appear slightly different (usually shorter and fatter) than the outside cases. I'm going to try this method over the weekend with the 005 and 111J cases, but unfortunately, I don't have a gen case to add to the mix, but I think I will add an old 111H case to the shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Exactly, just another reason not to worry about it, at least they are not short and stubby lugs like with DSN's cases! Some of these flaws and/or differences I see being discussed are infinitesimal! Yeah...I tend to get kind of anal with these things. I've actually put watches in my watch box out of frustration that one minute detail was too far off from gen and not worn the watch for several months. Then I would pull it out, put it on, and think "Damn, this is a NICE watch! Now, why did I put this thing away for so long?". Actually forgetting what that tiny flaw was and totally enjoy wearing the watch... ...It's a sickness, I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I used to be the same, however now I worry more about cosmetic flaws and or defects (dust, marks on dial etc...), rather than small inaccuracies I still want accurate replication, and there are still deal breakers (like a sunken date), but I have mellowed over time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Yeah...I tend to get kind of anal with these things. I've actually put watches in my watch box out of frustration that one minute detail was too far off from gen and not worn the watch for several months. Then I would pull it out, put it on, and think "Damn, this is a NICE watch! Now, why did I put this thing away for so long?". Actually forgetting what that tiny flaw was and totally enjoy wearing the watch... ...It's a sickness, I know... This is crazy...are you my twin brother by any chance? I'm glad to hear there are more like me out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 This is crazy...are you my twin brother by any chance? I'm glad to hear there are more like me out there... LOL...yeah...I think this hobby is suited for guys like us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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