blix Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Coronet shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Coronet shot. All aftermarket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blix Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 That´s what I expected. I guess I´ll be his first negative feedback for selling aftermarket as genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 her are some coronet shots....all gen: Notice the variation of the spacing between the bottom of the coronet to the 3 dots. Als, not the the opening in the bottom of the coronet is always flattened not open and rounded. I hope this helps. The Tall thinner coronet was def. more prevalent in the vintage time period where as the stubbier is more modern. All have crimped construction. The 704 is solid construction, but the opening at the base of the coronet is flatter than the round opening present on your crowns. Whew! I am done. All this talk of crowns......I need a crown and coke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blix Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Thanks again, JAG. I really appreciate all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Thanks for the pictures Kurt! I feel like you have more expertise in this area. Are you saying that you are 100% sure all of the crowns you pictured have the crimped construction? If so, then that answers my question about 703's with a modern coronet. I have attached some pictures from my R20 2003 catalog and first service guide (not sure of the year). They show a lot of different crowns but may add to the confusion. I have also posted a picture of a "703" crown I purchase off of eBay. It is next to my Genuine Sea-Dweller (loos crown on the left). The crowns look identical to my eye under a 10X loupe. The loose crown also has a monobloc deisgn. Other than the polish, it looks very similar to the first picture on the Daytona. Please educate me...... :bangin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 look at the width of the mouth(Opening at the base of the crown) The loose crown has a rounder(bigger) opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 2 things: 1) I am no expert so the crowns you bought may be 704's I doubt it but hey, you never know. 2) The crown in the first pic of my last post(the vintage daytona) has a Gen 704 crown so you can see the clarity of the stamping and all nuances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Thanks again Kurt! I am a little skeptical myself about the crowns myself. The seller told me that the crowns he was selling were bought from a watchmaker. He buys the old crowns that are still good. The ones I got looked like they were all "marked" as rejects so as not to be used again. Have you ever seen a 703 crimped crown with the newer coronet? Also, I took a micrometer reading on the base of both crowns I pictured. The bas of the coronet was the same on both. From left to right about about 1.2mm and up and down was about .56mm (that was from the inside of the lines). I was planning on using that crown on my Daytona, but may have to reconsider now :g: I agree that they do look different in the pictue, but they look identical in person. I don't know if it is the angle or the lighting. I will try to get a better straight on picture tomorrow. Thanks again!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I truly don't want to beat a dead horse, but I would like to find an answer to some questions. So far, I have yet to see a picture of a crimped 703 crown with the newer style coronet. I am thinking that all crowns with that style coronet are modern monobloc 704's. The R20 catalog from 2003 says that 16600 Sea-Dweller's are supposed to have 703 crowns, yet mine (which has an F serial number and has never been serviced) has a 704. Why do I say it is a 704? Because it has the modern style coronet and I see no crimping. I was going to pop off the back and take off the stem but decided it was unnecessary. I could easily see the crimps on the 703 crown on my 1680. I am also not convinced that the crowns posted originally are aftermarket or fake. I was able to get some better pictures of the two crowns I posted yesterday. Again, the one mounted is on my Sea-Dweller and the loose crown was purchased off of eBay (as a 703). I tried to combine the two pictures to see if they lined up. The angle and size of the crowns are not 100% identical, but they look very much the same to me. I also took a side by side picture of my Sea-Dweller crown and the crown on the left of Blix's crown shot. Again, the angle, quality, and size aren't the same, but they also look the same to me. I have to apologize about the quality of the comparison shots. I had to take them with my phone since I don't knwo how to take a screenshot on the computer. Perhaps my eyes aren't as good as they used to be, and someone can point out some differences. If Blix's crowns and my loose crown are fake/aftermarket, then they are pretty good. I have seen some that you could spot from 3 feet away. I am always looking to learn and aftermarket parts are getting very good, so please feel free to chime in. Loose Mounted on Sea-Dweller Combined Picture Side By Side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I will go to my watchmaker and see if I can get a new in package 703 and 704. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Thanks Kurt, All of the 703's I have bought and have seen on the internet (NIP) have the vintage coronet. I haven't seen many, but the pictures of the 704's (NIP) have the modern coronet. It would be nice to have a definitive answer though. It just makes me think that Rolex is going to eventually phase out the 703 and replace everything with the 704. Why else would the document that my 16600 should have a 703 and put a 704 on it at the factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Agreed. But as long as Rolex has a supply, they will issue what they have. No rhyme or reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelizer Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Very interesting read guys! Would love to get some clarification as well since I have two supposedly gen solid/ non crimped 7mm triplock crowns - bought from a watchmaker in Switzerland - that looks exactly like the ones omgiv and blix has.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blix Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Here a few more comparison shots (mine vs. omgiv ebay-crown). They seem to be the same. If these are indeed fake, they did a damn good job. (teeth do not line up because of angle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Thanks Blix, Your comparison shots came out better than mine I am going to go with my gut and say that these are indeed genuine. They are not 703's as I was told they were, but 704's. We'll see if I am wrong :brow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapman57 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) Fascinating read this guys - great stuff. I do not have the photographic skills to match Blix and Omgiv, but having first conclued that my 'so called gen crowns' were fake, I am now not too sure. They were sold as 703's from a very reputable source. They are however, like many here, monobloc construction like the 704? Having researched and bought numerous so called gen 703's from a number of sources (which seem reputable?), I dont recall ever seeing a crimped 703???? So maybe the market is flooded with excellent, aftermarket monobloc 703 copies. There cant be THAT many old and used second hand, recycled 704's out there - surely????? Come to think of it, how do they all reach the open market when we know that AD's and RSC's control the arket so tightly these days? Edited March 11, 2011 by PMMUTD68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blix Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 You're more than welcome. I want to find out the truth behind these darn crowns as much as you do. I doubt it is fake, really. Or atleast, I find it hard to believe that such a reputable seller is selling knock-offs (keeping an optimistic view, eheh). When did Rolex introduce the 704? Thanks Blix, Your comparison shots came out better than mine I am going to go with my gut and say that these are indeed genuine. They are not 703's as I was told they were, but 704's. We'll see if I am wrong :brow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelizer Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 When did Rolex introduce the 704? +1 That would give us a hint on how many possible used ones that could be floating around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blix Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 <2002 is as close as I can get. So probably over 10 years. Would not surprise me if the crowns I bought are indeed 704s, and not 703s as I assumed (he didn't advertise them as 703, I just assumed). That is, if omgiv is sure the crown on his SD is gen, which I'm guessing he is. My crowns, and the crown that was purchasd by omgiv on eBay, seem to be identical compared to his gen 24-704 crown. Anyone else with a gen 704 crown that could chime in, or ideally can take some face shots of the crown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I am 100% without a shadow of a doubt sure the crown on my Sea-Dweller is genuine. Everything on that watch is I don't know when the 704 was introduced but I would think it has at least been a decade. My only question is why there are more true 703 crimped crowns floating around. Wouldn't we all like to buy some used ones at 1/3 -1/2 the price of a new one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjjoyce1 Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Been lurking this thread with interest. Great info here. I bought a "Gen" 703 from jewelerstools. After the info from this thread, I immediately could say it definitely was NOT a 703, but couldn't rule out a 704 (not crimped metal - machined solid piece). I contacted them about it not being a gen 703 as advertised with my reasoning why, and have never gotten a reply/refund/"seller has decided to cancel this transaction" faster in my life! The money was in my PP account before I could even go WTF? Also, Blix, just for giggles before I packed it up to send back, I tried putting on my 5512 I got from jsuperman17 on RG. It didn't fit the rep tube - slipped right over the tube without even hitting the threads. Very different inside diameters. (pc12drvr) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I looked through my used 7mm steel crowns and found 5 'monobloc' type crowns along with 5 with obvious crimps and 8 with very small, hard to see crimps. All the 'monobloc' styles have thinner arms and bigger holes at the base of the coronet than the crimped crowns. All these crowns are all from about 1995 to 2005. None after 2005 for sure as I have not changed a crown on a submariner since then. All are genuine take-offs. My new (in sealed packs) 703-0 7mm steel crowns all have crimped caps that are hard to see like the 8 mentioned above...the crimps are nearly closed and the gaps are hard to see. You have to look around the edge of the crown skirt to clearly see the cap edge. The gold crowns are made the same way. All my (used and new) crimped crowns have thicker coronet arms and smaller holes at the base. One crimped crown has tiny holes in the coronet points. Do not know if it was made like this or due to damage or polishing. All new crowns are from 1995 to 2005. All new crowns came from DRS on 47th St NYC or rlx Dallas and are genuine. I looked at the crowns through a 20x Accutron scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelizer Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Thanks for confirming this automatico! Now I'm confident about my used monobloc crowns being gen! (just like before this thread saw the light of day and made me a bit worried) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Thanks for looking at all of your crowns Automatico and for posting your results. I think your findings pretty much support what I was thinking. I feel like I can finally put this issue to rest now :thumbsupsmileyanim: Thanks again!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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