TJGladeRaider Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I have been going round and round via email with a member who feels that I "shafted" him. I thought he finally saw that his position made no sense - his last email to me said: "Thanks Bill - good luck with the remaining sales. I will take it no further. My comments are private to you. I do not thread crap, or mud sling or even 'cause a stir'. Reputation is everything, it takes years to build and minutes to lose. Just wanted you to know my frustration at missing one of these!" Now, I see that Peter has alluded to this in the other ethics related thread - it's an assumption on my part, but I sent him a "WTF is this" email and he didn't deny it. I regard this to be a slimy invitation for people to wonder who treated him badly, and inquire privately, so he can report how I "shafted" him behind my back. Just been stung myself here in the past 48 hours..............hurt bad. If a man's got a problem he wants people to be aware of, he ought to articulate it up front, and give the other party an opportunity to respond. I don't like back stabbing. I posted a request for help and advice regarding a couple of MBW GMTs I bought years ago that turned out to be junk. That wasn't a "sale" post, but several people expressed an interest in buying those dials, and several people had the same opportunity to make me an offer that Peter did, but a watch smythe known to me with tool & die capabilities that most of us don't have, wanted to buy them thinking they might be made into something nice -- an offer that appealed to me, so I GAVE THEM TO HIM - actually three vintage GMTs. If I had been so inclined, I could easily have put them back as received, and offered them for sale as MBW Vintage GMTs -- which they were. People would have expected the product MBW is known for and bought them for serious money, only to be as disappointed as I was. I didn't want to sell them, and I made it absolutely clear to anyone with the intellectual acumen of a house plant that they were junk. I didn't offer them for sale, I didn't price them to anyone and the watch smythe was the only person to respond to me with anything that appealed to me. So Peter, if you lost out, and it "hurt bad," that's not my fault in my view - but if our peer group sees it differently, I'd like to know that. If you want to allude to this in public, that's fine, but I will not let you air your petty BS little grievance behind my back. Suppose you tell us: 1) Did I offer it for sale, or was I asking for help? 2) Did I reach out to you, or did you reach out to me? 3) Did I, or did I not, invite you to make me an offer? 4) Did you, or did you not, make me an offer? 5) Instead, did you, or did you not, offer me some general observations that some other dial was available for $30? Frankly, I wouldn't go to the trouble to ship an empty box to the UK for $30 - and your most recent communications to the effect that you were not suggesting that my dial was actually worth $30 is not persuasive. If it wasn't intended to be relevant, why did you mention it? I spent an enormous amount of money on those watches, junk that they turned out to be - what obligation do you think I had to make the dial available to you at any price, just because you wanted it so bad that you didn't even make me an offer. If you feel you are aggrieved, say so, and explain why. If not, get you a nice big block of cheese and a box of Ritz to go with that whine. Honest to God, if anyone thinks I'm in the wrong here, I really wanna know. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Bill - Can you encapsulate the issue in a couple of lines? That is, what is Peter's complaint that you did or did not do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollux1 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I gather from your post you have done nothing whatsoever wrong. The person in question should take a long walk off a short pier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave123 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Bill - Can you encapsulate the issue in a couple of lines? That is, what is Peter's complaint that you did or did not do? Ya Stevie doesn't see the issue either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Bill - Can you encapsulate the issue in a couple of lines? That is, what is Peter's complaint that you did or did not do? That's just it - I don't understand why he is so vehement that I "stiffed" and "shafted" him - his words in the emails. I have no idea how any rational man could claim to have been "stung," when he just saw that I had the dials, I never offered to sell them, I never priced them, and he never offered me a price. All I can do is tell you what the facts and circumstances were and give him an opportunity to give us some cogent explanation as to how I treated him badly, so I can point specifically respond to it. The bottom line is, he did make it clear to me that he wanted the dial off of one of those watches (as did several people,) I declined to put a price on it and he didn't make any offer. Meanwhile, someone I know does good watch work asked to buy one because he thought he could make something nice out of it. That idea appealed to me so I gave him the three I had. You see, my thought process was this. 1) I didn't want to put them back together and sell them as MBW Vintage GMTs (which they are) because they really are junk. I have no doubt that someone expecting MBW quality would have bought them at a high price, but they would have been sick when they found out that they don't have cases like the gens. 2) I didn't want to sell them to someone else either for fear that they would just assemble them and sell them as MBW Vintage GMTs - here or elsewhere. It would be predictable that someone might pay MBW money, and be as disappointed as I was. 3) I didn't want to sell the dials because that's the only real bright side of the watch - and Peter never mentioned any figure except to tell me about some dials that were available for $30. You're a call it like you see it guy - did I do something wrong here? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 You're a call it like you see it guy - did I do something wrong here? Bill Nothing wrong whatsoever from where I'm sitting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrboombasteke Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 So hold on...he asked to buy 1 and you gave 3 away for FREE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 That is the way I was reading it, too. Is that the (capsulized) gist of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 The thing about the Internet, is that you have no idea who you are dealing with. Could be a kid, could be an 80 year old man in an iron lung .. could be someone who needs medication to make their personality level. People's reactions are wide and varied, and not always sane. Because not everyone is sane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 So hold on...he asked to buy 1 and you gave 3 away for FREE? Yes, I had spent about a thousand dollars on that junk. Without the dials, there was nothing about the MBWs I liked, and I was anxious to see if a person with skills and the proper equipment could make something nice out of them. Although the smythe did offer to buy one, I didn't want him sending me money without knowing if the watches could actually be done up right, or what kind of work would be involved. If he finds out that he can do what he thinks he can do, I'll get him to do one for me. If not, . . . it's really all about the game here isn't it? There's another piece of information. There were actually two dials I have that he wanted, but not knowing what was fair, I asked him to make me an offer on them. The other is a new in the box MBW Singer 1680 dial that I haven't offered for sale, am not anxious to part with, and haven't priced either. When he got all wound up and upset that I let the GMTs go, I asked him if he was going to be all upset if I let someone talk me out of the 1680 -- he declined to make me an offer on too, so I told him he could have it for $100. I have no idea what it is worth, but I wouldn't price that at $100 - I suspect a Singer with the feet would sell for a lot. With all the talk about "stiffing" him and "shafting" him, I thought that was a favor because no matter what it's worth, it's worth more than that to me. He passed; frankly, I hoped he would! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 That is the way I was reading it, too. Is that the (capsulized) gist of this? Yes, he wanted to buy one, but I gave three away instead - one was the chinese version to supply an extra Swiss movement and hands if he should need them, and two were MBWs. They were mine, I paid a lot for them, and it seems to me that I could bury them in the back yard if I wanted to. As far as all that goes, I had someone else recently offer me a ton of money for something else that I wouldn't price, and declined to sell, and then I gave it away instead. I think I can do that. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrboombasteke Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Yes, he wanted to buy one, but I gave three away instead - one was the chinese version to supply an extra Swiss movement and hands if he should need them, and two were MBWs. They were mine, I paid a lot for them, and it seems to me that I could bury them in the back yard if I wanted to. As far as all that goes, I had someone else recently offer me a ton of money for something else that I wouldn't price, and declined to sell, and then I gave it away instead. I think I can do that. Bill Bill--you can do whatever you want...after all they are your watches. I'm sure that you knew that already though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praetor Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) Here's what I'm getting. 1) you posted a help thread 2) people offer to buy it off you 3) you refused b/c you think it's junk and gave it for free 4) and they complained 0.o?? ???? Edited April 22, 2011 by praetor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Bill - The bottom line, in my personal opinion (this is not an official RWG pronouncement by any means) is that if you agreed to sell someone an item (or gave them a reason to think or expect that you would be selling them the item) that you later gave away (or sold) to someone else, then that is pretty cold. I would never do that. On the other hand, if there was NEVER any such agreement, then I am not sure why you even posted this thread? In that case, I would simply have addressed the complainer's accusations, briefly (limiting the response to 2-3 lines), directly (in his own thread) & left it at that. It seems to me this whole thing would best be carried out between the 2 concerned parties via PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Probably pissed cause you didn't offer to give them to him for free... But I don't see how that's stiffing him... You never agreed to part with said items in any kind of transaction with him anyways... Therefore, he did not have exclusive claim or offer on those parts (i.e. no money had traded hands). Last I checked, you are free to do what you like with your property/items/possessions... Just because you didn't agree to sell/trade/gift to one person over another doesn't mean you stiffed someone out of a deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Here's what I'm getting. 1) you posted a help thread 2) people offer to buy it off you 3) you refused b/c you think it's junk and gave it for free 4) and they complained 0.o?? ???? Yes, you summed it up concisely - at least from my view. I'm still waiting to hear what Peter has to say. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Probably pissed cause you didn't offer to give them to him for free... Last I checked, you are free to do what you like with your property/items/possessions... Just because you didn't agree to sell/trade/gift to one person over another doesn't mean you stiffed someone out of a deal... Hey Ubi -- so good to see you on here. As you may recall, I've always been one to send people things I had lying around - gratis. It doesn't make conomic sense to spend a couple of hours negotiating a deal on small money for something you have lying around, and I don't sell used cars for a living. Haggling isn't rewarding to me. On the other hand, I have also been known to pay silly money for things that were important to me - especially if the THING came from a PERSON important to me. In my view, this is the one most bizarre hobby in the world. People work hard to develop the ability to assess rep vs gen on a scale that has no real value to anyone anywhere else. People spend a small fortune to make a counterfeit version of something they could have bought gen for less. I'm wearing a 1680 MBW I have put stupid money in, but I could read a newspaper in the dark with it, and it's got a bunch of gen Rolex parts on it - the crown is silk! Where else in the world do I go to find people who understand - even if they disagree with my choices? Send me an email when you have some time. I'd really like to catch up. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 T'is a bizarre hobby indeed. I'm still trying to figure it out myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave123 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 While agreed with Freddy,this really seems a non issue that didnt need to be put on the board,though it did seem to get under the skin of Bill enough for this thread to be put up. Would love to hear the other sides story,if there is any. Could be another thread going nowhere but they always were my fave.... And hey Ubi,nice to see you sir... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 And hey Ubi,nice to see you sir... Likewise, Dave! Great to see you as well, kind sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky driver Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 The thing about the Internet, is that you have no idea who you are dealing with. Could be a kid, could be an 80 year old man in an iron lung .. could be someone who needs medication to make their personality level. People's reactions are wide and varied, and not always sane. Because not everyone is sane. i don't know why you are having a poke at me for? i just minding my own business here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 . . . On the other hand, if there was NEVER any such agreement, then I am not sure why you even posted this thread? In that case, I would simply have addressed the complainer's accusations, briefly (limiting the response to 2-3 lines), directly (in his own thread) & left it at that. It seems to me this whole thing would best be carried out between the 2 concerned parties via PM. As I said when I posted, this was between us privately, and he specifically indicated that the issue was closed; unfortunately, he did not leave it that way and began trolling for concerned citizens he could whine to behind my back with his "I have been so screwed, I'm hurt so bad, thumbs down" nonsense. When I see someone report that they have been victimized, I tend to reach out to them for further information, and I think many of us do that too. Rumor, gossip and untenable allegations fester and grow in the dark like fungus -- I'll not have anyone talking behind my back about a "wrong" they cannot take public if I can help it. I've made my point and done what I set out to do here. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 i don't know why you are having a poke at me for? i just minding my own business here I was wondering about that myself. Personally, I wouldn't make a remark about sanity around you . . . I understand that your Momma did that once and just look at what she made you do! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Ya Stevie doesn't see the issue either... I "wonder" why. On a serious note,I dont see where Bill has done anything wrong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki6 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 This 'Stevie' also agrees!! Bill has every right to give the dials to whomever he likes!! Hell he can use them for shooting practice, they're his!! To do with as he pleases! Sixx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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