drury Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Hi there guys, I haven't quite made my mind up on this, but I'm very tempted by this. Also I don't think anyone as actually atempted it, so in any case it's a hard one. Here's what i know so far: It's the only manual wind submariner ever produced, sporting a Tudor caliber 1163 (opinions vary, some state the internal Tudor reference as 1188, based on an ETA 1156, most probably, a modified ETA 1080 with added Kiflector shock absorbtion). It should be possible to find one of those in old manual wind Tudors. Otherwise a 1080 could be used. Possibly it is also a FEF 350, the base manual wind caliber of the TUDOR/ROLEX 350. That would obviously make sence, because the watch is a prototype and Fleurier never made automatic movement. The 7923 seems to have been produced (or designed) before the 7922, even though the serials are sequential. Most people don't believe the movement was made by Fleurier, but it's an option never the less: The case design was shared with it's Rolex brother the 6536 (although some 7923's are reported to have a 8mm brevet crown.) Except for the caseback, the cases should therefore be identical. The caseback is a special topic ... it's flat, to accomodate the manual wind movement. More like something found on a Rolex precision and has the serial engraved on the outside (!) Dial is shared with TUDOR 7922. Some are supposed to have pencil hands and very rarely red dial printing. So guys, what do you think? Is this one possible? I think obtaining case an movement should be possible ... caseback, hands and dial are a different story! Well, maybe one of you has some advice and an idea where to start! Thanks in advance, Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drury Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Little list: Phong's or Yuki's 6536 case (I have no idea which one is better and why, somebody would need to make a suggestion on that) with custom engraving Dial would have to be a redial, maybe Phong could also take care of that (For the beginning may a decal? à la jmb maybe?) 6mm brevet crown (DSN or gen I suppose), maybe 8mm to make it special Rolex Oyster precision caseback (Does anyone know if it would fit?) and custom engraving Tudor movement from an old Tudor "precision" (maybe the caseback would work aswell) or alternatively, for the beginning, a simple ETA 1080 no idea on the hands though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I'll watch fleabay for a gold ribbon for my printer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiman12 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 NDT has a dial...it's nice, but is mucho dollars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drury Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 completely forgot about NDT ... They actually offer two dials, the one for 600$ is more accurate for the 7923 I believe Also they offer a 7922 replacement case. Possibly they could do custom engravings and have 7923 engraved instead. That would def. save some money on that account. Can anybody say something about their quality / reliability? Is that case somewhat accurate? Never dealt with them before! Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Can't speak for the NDT side of things, but this project will be very, very impressive! All the best Drury with the attempt! That is one beautiful watch!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 That would be pretty cool to see I guess just taking the rotor off a regular movement just wouldn't be the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donerix Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I found this pic of a 7923 sideview: and after comparing it with 6542 cases (gen on top, Puretine on the bottom) I think it could be a good and cheaper alternative (maybe a different caseback) and you can just sand down the rehaut and a 27.3mm dial will fit just fine: NDT has the right bezel, they send me a wrong one by mistake for my 6542: But I also saw this gen pic with a bezel that looks more like a GMT version (and very much like the PT stock bezel): Just my 2 cents. Cool project BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drury Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I found this pic of a 7923 sideview: and after comparing it with 6542 cases (gen on top, Puretine on the bottom) I think it could be a good and cheaper alternative (maybe a different caseback) and you can just sand down the rehaut and a 27.3mm dial will fit just fine: NDT has the right bezel, they send me a wrong one by mistake for my 6542: But I also saw this gen pic with a bezel that looks more like a GMT version (and very much like the PT stock bezel): Just my 2 cents. Cool project BTW Thanks for the input Donerix! That puretime case might really be an option. I think the case was actually shared with the 6536, some examples I believe were even delivered with a rolex engraved caseback. Of course, with these old watches you never know if it's actually gen or a "franken" example, possibly even put together by RSC. But anyway, the PT case looks just fine, if you give it a little "fake" wear, nobody could tell the difference anyhow. Also the bezel in the last picture is quite interesting. I would say it's a 6536 bezel that's just changed it's appearance over the years. In that case the PT stock bezel would look "pre-aged", which is great. Does anybody know if the older Tudor/Rolex Oyster Precision models had a caseback that would actually fit a 6536/6542 case? Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drury Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 That would be pretty cool to see I guess just taking the rotor off a regular movement just wouldn't be the same Not quite But 50's manual wind Tudor movements don't seem to be that hard to source anyway! Should be the same (or a similar) movement. The bigger problem will be hands and caseback Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donerix Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Here is a movement (needs some cleaning though): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-gents-Tudor-Royal-movement-rust-/260840092130?pt=UK_Jewellery_Watches_WatchAccessories_SpareParts_SM&hash=item3cbb47f1e2#ht_500wt_1204 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Not quite But 50's manual wind Tudor movements don't seem to be that hard to source anyway! Should be the same (or a similar) movement. The bigger problem will be hands and caseback Cheers, Tim I guess this is where the issue of form over function becomes blurred... If you go for the 50's movement, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that it is what it is, even though no one else would be able to see said movement, where if you just pull the rotor from a regular auto, you wind up with a manual wind movement, and less issues with regards hands and caseback, but the knowledge that it's not 'quite right under the hood'... Best of luck with the project though, I'll be following its progress with interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'm digging this project a LOT! which dial will you ultimately use? Will you age, or preserve? Movement? @Donerix Whatever happened to the bezel? do you still have it? Measurements? Keep this project up. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Any updates? You got me going here E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 I have a bezel nearly identical to this one, if you can't find another source. In this picture the wear around the base of the bezel is from contact with the crown. It's a close fit anyway, and as the crown gasket wears, it screws further onto its tube, and eventually the clearance between crown and bezel is gone. Turning the (soft) bezel eats it away against the (hard) crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Makes sense. I am gathering parts for this already. Need a good case and hands source. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Any other updates? unfinished projects? E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drury Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Okay guys! Here's my first attempt on trying to replicate that caseback: What do you think? (I know it's nowhere near the real deal, but it's a start!) Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 That's not bad. Any clues on the movement/ring setup? E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drury Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 hand sizes for an eta 1080 are 150/90/20, hands for a 2824 should be 150/90/25, so that shouldn't be a big problem! no idea on a movement spacer/ring yet ... cheers, tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 The 1080 movements keep popping up for pretty decent prices. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drury Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 just got this: things are moving on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Ooof. Details man details. Yuki claims to be looking for early dials, but not sure how true this is. I just cannot justify paying $1,000 bucks for an NDT dial. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Sweet!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drury Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Ooof. Details man details. Yuki claims to be looking for early dials, but not sure how true this is. I just cannot justify paying $1,000 bucks for an NDT dial. E gen tudor 1156/1163, running, but I'll have it serviced when the watch shall be assembled. (it's missing the hour wheel, but that should be obtainable) I was thinking of using that 6542 case for the project (or are there better ideas?) I'm just wondering about the position of the lugholes, they seem a little off. anybody have any experience with puretimes sending to europe? the only acceptable dial I've seen is the NDT for 600$ and that's just too much no idea on the dial yet ... cheers, tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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