PeteM Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 .... I thought some of you guys might find it interesting I sort of cobbled it together from a couple of reputable Ristis The Black Seal 5218-218A This is no doubt the controversial Pre-Vendome watch This piece was first projected very early 1996, drawn and specified in mid 1996, final specifications in December 1996, re-specified & re-final drawings in January or February 1997 by Panerai in Firenze. Delay and re-specifications happened because all Pre-Vendome pieces did not meet success expectations (not happening fast enough), already in financial difficulties, Panerai in Firenze wanted to minimize their cost of production and therefore wanted to ‘self’-produce or produce locally their latest watches. Even if the Black Seal watch project was planned for production in 1996, commercially expected by the Panerai in Firenze agents for September 1996, to produce locally took some times to put in place and it was slow, thus explaining why the watch only saw the light of sun in late 1997. All Pre-Vendome watches were produced in Switzerland by the Frères Guenat (Company Name: Montres Valgine), all but 5218-209 5218-210 5218-218 which are the very last watches specified by Panerai in Firenze, those last, had been produced in Italy, Coro Spa (Italy) for the cases, and by Fabiano Alessi ‘Croem’ for all fittings and adjustments, movements et dials were sourced by ‘Valgine’’s subcontracted companies. After the acquisition of Panerai by Vendome, Coro (Italy) was initially chosen to produce the post Vendome watch cases, but past the first 500 Pre-A series cases, Vendome decided to end their contract and the company ceased its activities. The 5 pieces 5218-218A Black Seal were in fact completed and released only in late 1997 Post Pre-Vendome era. A secret, a surprise to all but one, in Mai 1997 Panerai in Firenze had sold all their rights to watches and instruments to Vendome, this resulting that officially Panerai in Firenze which continued its other activities as Panerai Sistemi spa, could not officially accept delivery of those watches. However and somehow someone at Panerai Sistemi took delivery of those pieces. I believe that most of the 5 pieces were kept till the end of Panerai Sistemi spa in 2000 (1999/2000 ) then all the 5 pieces were sold. Somehow 1 piece (probably even 2 pieces,) is with current Panerai (The CEO was photographed sporting one on wrist, photo somewhere on web), a private party purchased 2 pieces, one temporally stayed with the original recipient and I believe one was with the ex-Panerai distributor 1993-1997 (Gioie). In 2002 (2001?) a Few Panerai enthusiasts were aware that some direct and indirect parties of the ex-Panerai in Firenze together with in the complicity professional parties as well a freshly established horological company were ‘producing’ some Pre-Vendome pieces. Even if partly assembled using some new old stock parts, none of those that were seen or discussed (often online) had the full original configurations, despite the resemblance and whatever certifications, they are simply put, nothing short of FAKES! Although legally in Italy, it seems that if a watch is 66% made of original parts it is considered as authentic, sold by ‘genuine’ people! I believe there are out there in total approx 25 ‘Pre-Vendome Black Seal’ pieces, may be even more, safe for 5 pieces, most are with no case-back markings, no watch numbers, incomplete or reworked packaging, even wrong cases or finishes etc… I am aware of 6 re-replicas of the 5 genuine pieces, their case-back engraving clearly shows the differences, and many of the others are often with blanked or semi-blanked case back. Regardless what anybody else says about the 5218-218A P 001; P 002; P 003, P 004; P 005, they are 5 original and true Panerai Pre-Vendome watches. Their legal existence can be discussed or challenged but, their authenticity (100%) is entire. They came out complete; with a Pre-Vendome box (like all previous models), with a named libretto (like all previous models), with a box sticker (like all previous models), with a screwdriver (like all previous models). BUT Unlike most of those assembled later… Very recently on the web it is said about the 5218-218A something like ‘new researches (what researches QWERTY or AZERTY?) indicate that those watches were assembled by Panerai in Firenze ex-employees’, to me this statement is incomplete and therefore a false declaration. If it is about the re-replicated 5218-218 then in part it is also a wrong conclusion/deduction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Great read Pete!!! Nicely done! It's nice to see some light shed on the 218 debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartDoc Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Nice write up. thanks for sharing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Nice and interesting to read . Thanks for the effort Pete Carpe Diem Cats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eton Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Thanks Pete! Sweet read and very interesting indeed!!! Cheers mate, K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sul Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Really good info Pete ps) I like very much these " old school" LBS / SP text font/ shape, unfortunately no rep dial has same text font and shape.. Edited October 10, 2011 by sul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Great write-up. I had always heard about the Pre-V debates but never knew the specifics. Folks like you and Wolf have forgotten more than I will ever know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Thanks guys..... I would like to take credit for all the info but I just compiled info from other reputable Risti's and put it forward... I really appreciate the compliment Warren mate but I couldnt hold a candle to Mike when it comes to PAMs @Sul - Funny you say that mate but I did see a dial recently for sale on here... It was in a watch, a 5218-201a as I recall.... it had the PreV font although it had spread a little during the application process... I think it was just a couple of the letters but I must admit I was tempted ... thinking I might be able to represent the font... however the rest of the watch wasnt for me in terms of the value of parting it out... relative to the asking price and taking the risk on being able to resolve the spread... plus now I think about it the shape and depth of indices wasnt great and it had been lumed as per a contemporary PAM... I think Rex might of been the modder/lumer though cant be sure... I am sure other senior guys on here would probably have come across these dials when they first appeared... and would know the source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Very interesting, thanks for this much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Great stuff Pete. Thanks for posting this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Thanks for the very informative post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosnik Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 thank you for this interesting post , Pete! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flin0310 Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 It's not the Pre-V hands on 218a why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted October 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 You need to post some pics of the one you are on about mate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flim Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Great post! Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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