swdivad Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 OK... I love this watch, it is the perfect chrono design for me. I have already bought a Swiss ETA quite a while ago and it has been relumed by both The Zigmeister and Finepics (that's another story altogether, let's stay on track her, shall we? ) As you may know, the original swiss PAM 212s came witha mineral crystal and a non-engraved rotor, as well as a beautiful (cough, cough) Snow White plastic spacer ring So anyway, swdivad thinks to himself, "Himself, what can we do to make this EVEN better?" I embark on what seems to be an anal modification to end all my modifications... Please be aware that I have no watchmaking/modding skills AND my eyes are pretty shot for close focus work, so I have commisioned my watchsmith (who loves my reps, by the way) to do the work for me... I buy the latest PAM 212 asian from Joshua, as to my delight, it includes a nicely engraved rotor, a metal spacer ring, AND an AR coated sapphire crystal. So, the job at hand is to swap all this stuff around and come up with the ultimate frankenrep outta the original, less than perfect ETA 7750 relumed model. Well... I visited my watchsmith today to check on the progress, which I must say, has come quite a way so far, but to my disappointment, is not seeming to go too well in some areas. Let me ellaborate, and maybe the collective knowledge here can help with some of the problems: The sapphire AR crystal on the new watch is not as perfect as the mineral... Although the AR is very beautiful blue and very subtle, like a gen, the surface distorts reflections, where the mineral does not, i.e when you put the sapphire crystal to the light, and rotate it so the light moves across the crystal, there is definite distortion along the path. The mineral does not exhibit this behavior, and the reflection is perfectly uniform across the light's path. Is this normal? I was under the impression that sapphire crystals are ground, but if they were ground, there would be no distortion whatsoever. I would think that the gen would not distort the light either. Another thing with *this* crystal is that there seems to be a white ring along the outside edge, the mineral does not show this either. This white ring could be caused by two things that I can think of... Either the edge of the crystal is not polished, almost frosted, and/or, the crystal seal ring is white plastic, and the color is exaggerated from this, or a combination of bioth. If the problem is a white plastic ring, and a black one would remove this hideous white area, great! If it is the refraction of a frosted/unpolished crystal edge, I fear this makes the crystal pretty bad for this project (along with the unfortunate distortion). Another problem with the crystal is that my watchsmith is a bit timid about pressing it (and the bezel) out for fear of scratching the case (trying to remove the bezel (there is no knife slot)) and also he fears he may shatter the crystal, bringing this project back to square 1... Another problem is the spacer ring, which will add to the needed heft of the watch, and alsomake it look so much better... This does not quite fit, telling me that the asian 7750 is a bit different to the ETA 7750... Not a big deal, a bit of machining will fix this up quicksmart... Just an observation in case anyone else wants to embark on a similar journey... The last small problem that we are running into is the rotor... Not a show stopper, but a small niggly problem that I hope and think is not as bad as I think right now... The rotor from the asian 7750rubs ever so slightly on the one bridge... it still rotates fine, but there is a very slight rub spot that will probably wear in after a few days/weeks use... Another observation. The mods will be done to the spacer ring to allow for the switch, the killer for me is the crystal and the bezel. I'd hate to ruin these, but am wondering if the crystal is good enough to use in the first place... The bottom line question for this is, How do we pop both of these suckers off safely? Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can give so I can get this back on my wrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 David, I have nothing to add to your post, but I have often considered the 212. I like the domed crystal, the layout, and the crown on this watch better than the 196 (which I had and did like). I've seen a couple of dealers offering a new and improved sapphire/ar crystal on the 212. I could even go one step further and get the swiss 7750. I know there is a handwind "seagull" movement out there too. Decisions, Decisions. Too many watches, not enough wrists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 David, To get the bezel off, try a razor blade and mask the case surfaces with masking tape. Perhaps it is quite possible to simply swap bezels with the crystals in instead of simply swapping crystals. This would eliminate the risk of a shattered crystal when being pressed back in (that is, if the bezel is correct on both). Not sure if any of this helps, but perhaps worth thinking about... Best, R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 David - be very careful with these. The bezel on this is not like the fiddy which is held in with a nylon I ring and pops off fairly easily. These are a metal to metal interference fit and very hard to remove. You need a thin blade and have to tap it all the way round with a small jewellers hammer being careful not to damage the rubber O ring that gives the water resistance seal. The white ring is just the nature of sapphire and not much you can do about it. The distortion is because these crystals are not a well made shape. You will see it is different in profile to the older mineral type. Just another example of [censored] manufacture. The good news is that my 212 mineral crystal has been removed, in one piece, and is in the far east right now about to be cloned in Sapphire and AR'd ready for youse guys to buy, fit and forget. The rotor is easily fixed - just tweak it up a little - they easily bend slightly as the bearing cage is just a press fit into the rotor so it's just been bent down a touch which is why it's touchung the bridge plate. The newer 212's are from another factory which might explain the difference of fit with some components. Check out the more recent 212 dials to see what I mean (they are total crap). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azgjav Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 hey D, here's my modded 212: i've transferred the movement, metal spacer and pushers from the manual venus 212 into the case of the 7750 212. lots of work done to reshape the spacer and CG lever but now i think it looks more accurate and better with the smaller subdials correctly aligned 1 minute markers, nicer lume markers, nicer hands, short polished pushers greater heft, etc. waiting for FP's sapphire crystal to complete the look! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdivad Posted October 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 @FP, thanks for the info on the bezel... I guess I will just wait for your crystals... now that you're shipping the 7753 datewheels out, I can have my 196 back on my wrist and wait for the 212 to be finished Azigav Your 212 looks beaustiful... I can't wait to get mine back together and running well, I agree the extra heft from the spacer ring will make it feel just right After my PVD 196 project, this 212 will be my favourite rep, they will both be just as good as gens IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azgjav Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 pvd 196? hmm..don't remember reading a post abt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdivad Posted October 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 pvd 196? hmm..don't remember reading a post abt it. Will be back together after almost a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 I forgot about that PVD 196. Can't wait to see the finished product. On the apparent white ring around the bezel on the 253 I don't know the optical elements but I had noticed that on the gen 253. The inner bezel can look substantially lighter from many different lit angles. It is in fact the same color though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 i've transferred the movement, metal spacer and pushers from the manual venus 212 into the case of the 7750 212... Wow, that dial makes all the difference--Awesome job! Question: Let's say you want the short pushers and the dial from the manual version but want to retain the 7750 movement. I know you'll have to shave the feet, but are there subdial spacing issues as well? Barring that, I think a correct dial project would be money better spent than a new crystal project, especially since the latest 212's are coming w/ sapphire from the factory. Then again, until they fix the back on the 212, the manual movement w/ the auto case/guard/crystal is the way to go since even if you have the auto movement, the second anyone in the know sees the back you're busted anyway. Might as well have the on the wrist accuracy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWR Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 I have a manual one that the movement went out on, and i gave up on... interesting to know that it could be used for parts.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. the dial and spacer ring might be useful to someone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 I have a manual one that the movement went out on, and i gave up on... interesting to know that it could be used for parts.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. the dial and spacer ring might be useful to someone? I'll buy the ring & dial from you in a heartbeat if it fits the auto mvmt w/ the feet filed off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 I have a manual one that the movement went out on, and i gave up on... interesting to know that it could be used for parts.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. the dial and spacer ring might be useful to someone? Dial would be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavor flav Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 any chance to source a metal spacer ring from ofrei? and also i agree on the crystal. the old mineral looks better and more "clear" than the newer sapphires. i have an engraved rotor for my old swiss 212 but can't find a bearing for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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