the_rymeister Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hi guys I took apart my gmt 2 ceramic Swiss eta 2836 today to try sort out the keyless works. I've previously fixed a few keyless works issues on swiss eta 2824 which were a lot easier to take apart than the 2836 gmt. To start with the date wheel was completely different to the 2824 bit more tricky, but the main problem I have is I can't get the movement to hack, if this is the right term. ( to make the movement stop)? I removed all the keyless works parts including the pinion wheel and winding pinion,( also made sure I put these back in the right way as from previous removal I noticed the teeth on the side of the winding pinion! Then I moved the hack lever towards the centre on the movement and the movement stopped. Now to me this seems incorrect because this would replicate pushing the stem in, When I move the hack lever to the right or stem out it starts the movement off again. But when I put the lever In the sliding pinion and put back together it doesnt hack at all! Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong. I put all the keyless back together tested and all worked except the hack , tested once fitting all hands and the keyless works stopped working again. I need to take it all apart again and try resetting the kw. If anyone could help that would be great. I'll add a picture of the movement, this was a picture the seller took not me so I have had the kw out since this picture. Cheers in advance Ryan Hi guys I took apart my gmt 2 ceramic Swiss eta 2836 today to try sort out the keyless works. I've previously fixed a few keyless works issues on swiss eta 2824 which were a lot easier to take apart than the 2836 gmt. To start with the date wheel was completely different to the 2824 bit more tricky, but the main problem I have is I can't get the movement to hack, if this is the right term. ( to make the movement stop)? I removed all the keyless works parts including the pinion wheel and winding pinion,( also made sure I put these back in the right way as from previous removal I noticed the teeth on the side of the winding pinion! Then I moved the hack lever towards the centre on the movement and the movement stopped. Now to me this seems incorrect because this would replicate pushing the stem in, When I move the hack lever to the right or stem out it starts the movement off again. But when I put the lever In the sliding pinion and put back together it doesnt hack at all! Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong. I put all the keyless back together tested and all worked except the hack , tested once fitting all hands and the keyless works stopped working again. I need to take it all apart again and try resetting the kw. If anyone could help that would be great. I'll add a picture of the movement, this was a picture the seller took not me so I have had the kw out since this picture. Cheers in advance Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hard to say. Can you post a closeup of the keyless as you have them assembled? Also, strange that the works are out again after only installing the hands. That shouldn't happen, unless you did something re-installing the stem. Perhaps a component of the works is worn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rymeister Posted February 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I'll put my photos on my computer tomorrow night then upload one. It's strange as when you pull the crown out it works and other times you pull out the crown and it just spins without any resistance what so ever.just not sure about why it won't hack.domyou know if there is something on the rotor side of the movement you can adjust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hi Ryan, I don't know if I will be much help, but I will try. You are correct in that moving the hacking lever towards the center of the movement (from the dial side) does hack the movement. This is because the sliding pinion (part 407) is moved toward the center of the movement when the stem is pulled out. This allows the date and hands to be changed. Are you sure that the hacking lever is in the slot of the sliding pinion. It has to be perfectly centered in that slot to work. If you are sure it is centered in the slot, it could possibly be bent down. That would prevent it from coming into contact with the sliding pinion. If that doesn't provide any help, just let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rymeister Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hi Ryan, I don't know if I will be much help, but I will try. You are correct in that moving the hacking lever towards the center of the movement (from the dial side) does hack the movement. This is because the sliding pinion (part 407) is moved toward the center of the movement when the stem is pulled out. This allows the date and hands to be changed. Are you sure that the hacking lever is in the slot of the sliding pinion. It has to be perfectly centered in that slot to work. If you are sure it is centered in the slot, it could possibly be bent down. That would prevent it from coming into contact with the sliding pinion. If that doesn't provide any help, just let me know. Cheers omgiv I think you may be right. Do you know if the hack lever is the same on a 2824? As I have a spare 2824 movement? I may try changing it tonight. Im guessing the whole movement has to be stripped to change the lever. Cheers Ry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 The hack lever should be the same on the 2824. You will have to take off the automatic assembly and the barrel bridge. You should be able to replace it from there if you need to do so. I would check the one you have before you go through that trouble though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rymeister Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'll have a look tonight after work and take apart the 2824 first to see how it all comes apart hopefully not too fiddly! Cheers for your help buddy much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Much of the work to setting parts...set lever replacement etc should be done from the dial side (front side), but if you shove the set lever etc out of whack when r/r the stem...you can sometimes reset it from the back side by removing the autowind assembly, ratchet wheel, and plate over the mainspring barrel to get to these parts. This is easier than r/r the hands, dial, and date works. You can also r/r the winding pinion and clutch wheel from the back side. The hack lever should be installed only from the back side and be sure the hole in the hack lever is placed properly over the post made on the plate. Make sure the hack lever lightly touches the rim of the balance wheel when the stem is in the setting position. Hack levers for 2824 and 2836 are the same...p/n 9433. Always put the 2824 etc movements in time setting position when removing the stem and be careful not to push the detent button in too far. I will always remember what an old timer watch repair guy told me 25+ years ago... "The main thing is to not get excited." True. He also said... "The smaller they are, the easier they are to work on." For him maybe but not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rymeister Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Cheers for the advise bud,i'm going to try taking the movement apart tonight and check the lever is fitted correctly, it does work if you apply slight pressure on it but as far as I'm aware you shouldn't have to apply pressure. It must be bent or incorrectly fitted. I'll check it out later and post some pictures up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rymeister Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Right guys I completely stripped the movement down last night and found the hack lever bent. Replaced it from one out of my 2824. I put the movement back together swapped all the keyless movement parts out of my 2824 which all looked Identical,put it all back together. The movement seems to work fine but when I push the crown back in just before tightening it to the tube if you turn the crown it spins the rotor? does anyone know what I have done wrong? Also the keyless works still plays up. One time it all works fine then another time you pull out the crown and nothing happens! As if it's not connected to anything. You then click in one and move date then suddenly the time setting position works again! Any help would be appreciated Cheers all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexaddict Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I didnt work on a 2824 since 2 years, the 2824 is a low beat right ? but if I remember, the 2824 balance wheel is bigger than on a 2836, so the 2824 hack lever will not work Are you sure the 2824 and 2836 keyless parts and hack lever have the same design ? I am not sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacher62 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 The keyless works parts are the same, also the part no. 721 is the annular balance and it works in everything from 2801 on thru 2836. The 24 and 36 both beat at 28.8 bph. Are you sure that you are setting the parts in function before you put it together. In your photos at the top of this post, I can see that the set lever and corrector lever are not in the proper position to one another. There is a small pin on the point of the set lever. When the kw is placed in setting position that pin is to fit into the hook-shaped slot on the corrector lever. Also ther is a hook shaped spring on the bridge that covers it all and it has to be manually placed into position against the tab on the end of the yoke. I think I have a pic of that. If not, things to do not work predictably. There are three pins on the bottom of the set lever. The large one sets in the hole in the plate and provides the pivot. The one toward the middle rides in the slot on the stem, the one on the end works the corrector lever. Note that this is the kw in setting position (stem pulled out to second detent.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 It sounds like you have a couple of things going on. If the rotor spins when you wind the watch, it is a good sign that the pawl winding wheels (1488 and 1530) need oiling or are improperly oiled. But that shouldn't have anything to do with the keyless works. You have to be a little gentle when it comes to the keyless works. I usually pull the stem out to the date setting position when I remove the stem. When reinserting the stem, you have to play with it a little. It has to fit through the winding pinion and also fit through the square hole in the sliding pinion. It helps sometimes to also press the setting lever again like you did when you removed the stem. This lifts the setting lever and allows the stem to find the groove or the setting lever. Do you have any better detailed pics of your keyless works? The pics that preacher62 posted are pretty clear and good for a comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rymeister Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thanks for the help and photos guys, just uploading the photos to my mac and I'll post them up shortly, I'll probably swap out the top section of the movement with both the wheels you referred to and I'll try setting keyless again, I've set them up do many times but must be doing something slightly wrong.its so frustrating because every time I test it before fitting back into case it all works, I must be dislodging refitting the stem . I'll post some pics up to show you . Cheers Ry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacher62 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 If you have access to an ultrasonic cleaner you can fix the reversing wheels up in no time. Sometimes you can just rinse them good in denatured alcohol, but not usually...once they start sticking. See where the red arrow is pointing in the photo below. You want to clean these impecably and then pick up the tiniest drop of oil you can get and touch it there. Then do the same just opposite of that. Resist the temptation to touch it again. Less is best in this place. These reversing wheels are very sensitive to over-oiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rymeister Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 What do these reversing wheels do? Are these the ones numbered 1488 and 1530? and are these part of the barrell bridge? Sorry for the novice questions. Cheers Ry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rymeister Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Here some pics of the keyless on the movement in question. And are these the two wheels 1488 and 1530 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Wooow Ry, you have some trubbels But wooow you have balls doing this yourself and great skills, i envy you! And you have some great forum members here to help you, thats GREAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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