fellfell Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 @fellfell I see what you are a saying but considering what $200-500 gets me at my local stores reps don't seem too overpriced... For an automatic with decent quality and nice finish at all (even one that doesn't say a famous name) it is not cheap at a store. Of course some price goes to shipping and everyone in the process must make money, so some profits... So yes there is some markup and profit like any other business (in this business quite big markup but it's a relatively small market and somewhat dangerous). I agree that at very low prices the crappy watches may indeed be the best value for the $ becuase you still get a functioning watch for very few $$$ but if that was the desire we would go to our local stores and buy Timex waches for $10. I think part of the value you pay for in reps is indeed having the brand name, as silly as that may be in some lights. Ok, your is to raisonable point of view. But I do not understand the enthusiasm of these “experts” for watches that are really poor poor watches. The "experts" !!! An example of quality of "replica experts". They believe that the ETA of the Reps is a GEN swiss Eta. But Swiss Eta does not sell movements to the Chinese, these are all Chinese copies of Eta. Several Trusty, Eddie, Precious ecc.. are only large false. They only have interest to theirs business. No the rights of the consumer, only the business. They trick the stupis whom they believe to buy a small jewel (the "perfect" sub, the "ultimative" Yachtmaster....) and instead they buy an abort value $ 30/40. But the forum experts is not never shrewed? Or they are payed to the Chinese? Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 fellfell, can you exhibit any proof of what you are affirming? Please give us evidences, don't just state it all as self-evident. The Zigmeister gave us his evaluations about Asian-vs-Eta on repeated threads and on objective basis: please do the same if you want to criticize his statements. Tell us on what measurements you can say that a Seagull 7750 is worth no more than 20-30$. We have also been told of several ways that ETA movements can still be available around, at least until very recent times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Ok, your is to raisonable point of view. But I do not understand the enthusiasm of these “experts” for watches that are really poor poor watches. The "experts" !!! An example of quality of "replica experts". They believe that the ETA of the Reps is a GEN swiss Eta. But Swiss Eta does not sell movements to the Chinese, these are all Chinese copies of Eta. Several Trusty, Eddie, Precious ecc.. are only large false. They only have interest to theirs business. No the rights of the consumer, only the business. They trick the stupis whom they believe to buy a small jewel (the "perfect" sub, the "ultimative" Yachtmaster....) and instead they buy an abort value $ 30/40. But the forum experts is not never shrewed? Or they are payed to the Chinese? Bye It's my undrstanding all "Swiss ETA" movements are manufatured in China and "finished" by the Swiss so they can legally be called "Swiss Made". I don't quite get the ire and passion in your posts. Exactly what is your point, that these replica watches are in reality very poor quality mechanical watches? Are you trained in watchmaking and repair? Rob has done some remarkable reviews in the Repair and upgrade forums that both praise and criticize the mechanical reliability of the movements in our watches. These reviews demonstrate his skill and knowlege and are free of bias. When he tells me that an Asian 7750 with service can be just as reliable as an ETA version in a $2500 genuine, I know that opinion is based on tearing the Chinese movement down to the bare bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 @fellfell Interesting comments to say the least...not sure where they come from, or what they are based on, but interesting for sure... You have not commented very much on the forum, so I am not sure why you have such a opinionated view of this particular topic...and why you chose this particular thread to post your views... If I read your comments correctly, you say 3 things, 1. our watches are junk, 2. our watches dont' have any genuine ETA movement in them, and 3. I am getting paid off by the Chinese to post and say what I say ...(I hope that last one is true, and that my bank will cash a chinese cheque...) Anyone can buy 1 ETA movement, or 100 of them, or 1000 of them... send me a cheque for $10,000 and I will get you whatever type of ETA movements you want... Your suggesting that the ETA movements are not actually ETA ones, but Chinese copies... Well I am here to let you know that those that I see that are marked as ETA, are indeed ETA movements... there are copies of various movements in our watches, that is nothing new. Are the copie movements junk?? NO, not at all, for the most part they are really good quality. I'll put out an open invitation to anyone on this forum to come and sit at my workbench, and see for themselves a genuine ETA and a copy...after you handle as many watches as I do, you can see a Genuine ETA as soon as you look at it... Critisizme and accusations without any supporting info is simply worthless...it's your opinion, nothing else. I am not sure why your so [censored] off, if you dont' like the watches that are being sold here, then dont' buy them...you have a choice... I have posted dozens of posts with supporting information and pictures (some of it not positive) on various movements, you can do the same. Anyone can say whatever, lets see you back up your accustations and statements with some proof.... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 @fellfell Interesting comments to say the least...not sure where they come from, or what they are based on, but interesting for sure... You have not commented very much on the forum, so I am not sure why you have such a opinionated view of this particular topic...and why you chose this particular thread to post your views... If I read your comments correctly, you say 3 things, 1. our watches are junk, 2. our watches dont' have any genuine ETA movement in them, and 3. I am getting paid off by the Chinese to post and say what I say ...(I hope that last one is true, and that my bank will cash a chinese cheque...) Anyone can buy 1 ETA movement, or 100 of them, or 1000 of them... send me a cheque for $10,000 and I will get you whatever type of ETA movements you want... Your suggesting that the ETA movements are not actually ETA ones, but Chinese copies... Well I am here to let you know that those that I see that are marked as ETA, are indeed ETA movements... there are copies of various movements in our watches, that is nothing new. Are the copie movements junk?? NO, not at all, for the most part they are really good quality. I'll put out an open invitation to anyone on this forum to come and sit at my workbench, and see for themselves a genuine ETA and a copy...after you handle as many watches as I do, you can see a Genuine ETA as soon as you look at it... Critisizme and accusations without any supporting info is simply worthless...it's your opinion, nothing else. I am not sure why your so [censored] off, if you dont' like the watches that are being sold here, then dont' buy them...you have a choice... I have posted dozens of posts with supporting information and pictures (some of it not positive) on various movements, you can do the same. Anyone can say whatever, lets see you back up your accustations and statements with some proof.... RG My sentiments exact, Rob... Somehow, I get this feeling that he's posting this way partly due to his language, dude... @fellfell, you OBVIOUSLY don't know Rob... I think he's handled more movts than you have seen watches... Hey mods, this post should be placed in an "e-timecapsule"!! ...And it should be voted POM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Great post and observations, Rob! I agree that some reps have come a long way in the past two years or so. IMO, those with the ETA 2893-2 and 7753 are in a class by themselves but unfortunately, they were not around too long. I'm fortunate to have the two 2893-2 Pam GMTs and they are super smooth operators and COSC+ accurate out of the box. I'm scratching my head at fellfell's comments. Perhaps something was lost in the translation but it doesn't appear that way. In gen land, it's easy to spend well north of $1K on subpar quality in comparison to the reps I have experience with. They are way far from junk. It cracks me up when I see a quartz Coach for $300 or a quartz Cartier tank for $3.5K and I can go on and on. I'm more than scratching my head on fellfell's comments that any highly trusted member would misrepresent the origins of a movement for some sort of personal gain. That's the largest pile of nonsense that I have read in the 2 plus years I've been around. One thing Rob has always done IS to elaborately illustrate the quality and shortfalls of the widely used movements on these watches. I very much suspect that it fellfell were to carefully read Rob's reports on the various movements & study the included very detailed photos, his above post would be promptly edited or a correction posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Great posts as usual Zig. I too bought the first Pam's EL began to offer in 2004. I still wear my 112 a lot, regardless of the errors in the movement. It is a beautiful rep. In the last two years the rep industry has made leaps and bounds in fabrication. I am not so much interested in the movements in these watches, as much as I am concerned about quality of the dials, cases, bracelets etc. (Although I realize how important a well made movement is). This years crops of new models is as good as it has ever been. IWC, TAG, Omega, have all been the best quality imaginable for the price. 250.00 - 300.00 for watches that 2 years ago were 400.00 - 500.00. We are living in the 'Golden Age' right now. With the expertise of guys like The Zigmeister and a few others, in the rep world, it may in fact be the 'Platinum Age'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stac Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Outstanding read Rob as usual I think the quality issue as just about peaked off...maybe better quality stainless could be used as the gen's and maybe better print quality on datewheels. Print quality on some of the newer dials amazes me...but datewheels are a dead giveaway under a 8x loupe! If I had a wish for the rep Gods it would be a rep Val72...Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indyclmbr Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I came to RWG in April of 2005 with very little knowledge. Since then, I have studied under professors The Zigmeister, DT, Ken, Ubi, Nanuq and many more (I apologize if I left your name out-I have learned a lot from the members of this forum and its predecessor.) I respect everything Rob says with regards to reps and movements. He is our watchmaster and in the short time I've been here, I am convinced he is on the money as far as identifying the Golden Age of reps as right now. For crying out loud, even the subs, with all their tells are now coming with better crown guards from the factory. But now, the question of the quality of steel is coming up. The titanium watches are harder and harded to find, instead we get brushed stainless. The 2893s have come and gone. It's an ever-shifting landscape and I think we'll see some very good reps continue to come through the pipeline, but I think the progress we've seen in leaps and bounds over the last few years will start to slow, and decline in other areas, as daschund has pointed out with regards to some high quality reps disappearing and being replaced with lesser quality versions. Thank you Zig for this post and for all of your posts and knowledge that you have contributed to the members of this forum. We missed you this summer. I'm happy to have my eta 2893 gmts! Climb on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellfell Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 It's my undrstanding all "Swiss ETA" movements are manufatured in China and "finished" by the Swiss so they can legally be called "Swiss Made". I don't quite get the ire and passion in your posts. Exactly what is your point, that these replica watches are in reality very poor quality mechanical watches? Are you trained in watchmaking and repair? Rob has done some remarkable reviews in the Repair and upgrade forums that both praise and criticize the mechanical reliability of the movements in our watches. These reviews demonstrate his skill and knowlege and are free of bias. When he tells me that an Asian 7750 with service can be just as reliable as an ETA version in a $2500 genuine, I know that opinion is based on tearing the Chinese movement down to the bare bones. Dear sir all the opinions are respectables. I respect your opinion, but I think that chinese reps on the box are poor poor watches, and the entusiast pay it more more of the real value because they have fake marks (Rolex Panerai ecc...) I think that if you buy a rep for you, for your hobby (modding) you are good, but if you buy bad chinese fake because Rolex, Cartier ecc.. are Status Symbol and you desire but have not the money for a GEN, you are stupid. Please, I write "you" but "you" are not you = crystalcranium. You is discorsive, as "a person that buy ecc...." I write in friendly whit all members, also whit members that have different ideas for me. But the people that buy replicas for to have a fake status symbol are millions in the world, the men that have moddin hobby are 10, 100, 200...... and they are all here, in these forums. Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellfell Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 @fellfell Interesting comments to say the least...not sure where they come from, or what they are based on, but interesting for sure... You have not commented very much on the forum, so I am not sure why you have such a opinionated view of this particular topic...and why you chose this particular thread to post your views... If I read your comments correctly, you say 3 things, 1. our watches are junk, 2. our watches dont' have any genuine ETA movement in them, and 3. I am getting paid off by the Chinese to post and say what I say ...(I hope that last one is true, and that my bank will cash a chinese cheque...) Anyone can buy 1 ETA movement, or 100 of them, or 1000 of them... send me a cheque for $10,000 and I will get you whatever type of ETA movements you want... Your suggesting that the ETA movements are not actually ETA ones, but Chinese copies... Well I am here to let you know that those that I see that are marked as ETA, are indeed ETA movements... there are copies of various movements in our watches, that is nothing new. Are the copie movements junk?? NO, not at all, for the most part they are really good quality. I'll put out an open invitation to anyone on this forum to come and sit at my workbench, and see for themselves a genuine ETA and a copy...after you handle as many watches as I do, you can see a Genuine ETA as soon as you look at it... Critisizme and accusations without any supporting info is simply worthless...it's your opinion, nothing else. I am not sure why your so [censored] off, if you dont' like the watches that are being sold here, then dont' buy them...you have a choice... I have posted dozens of posts with supporting information and pictures (some of it not positive) on various movements, you can do the same. Anyone can say whatever, lets see you back up your accustations and statements with some proof.... RG Dear sir ETA makes part of a consortium commanded from Carter who satisfied private eyes in order to discover the channels of arrival of the reps in the USA. ETA enters nothing with the sinoReps. Not sells the movements to the Chinese. Ok This is in the most the important Italian reviews of orologeria as “L'orologio" "Orologi" "OM orologi & Market” ecc.. On these reviews writes authoritative experts , comprised the Patron of Antiquorum Osvaldo Patrizzi. The RWG friends are free to believe to they or to The Zigmeisterzumba and his workbench. For the rep quality, I post my personal valutation. It is possible or is obligatory to always adore the Chinese? I value because I have acquired someone, and my judgment is that fake watches are poor poor watches, real value $ 30 or 40. Do you love it? Everyone has its ideas. Continuous you also to living in means to make yourself thinking that they are small jewels, good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnkaz Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 A nice post, but really where are we going? The price of decent looking reps has been falling for some time, but the price is in terms of quality. Whenever I succumb to a cheap rep I always later regret it, yet whenever I buy a well made higher priced piece I continue to enjoy it. Quality or quantity, for me the former for sure. Cheers Johnkaz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam_tgg Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Fellfell, first of all, what the hell are you doing here buying "chinese junk" reps? I really could not understand it. Second: what the "“L'orologio" "Orologi" "OM orologi & Market” " says is for people that buy gens of 4000-20.000 euros (or more) or people that have no money to buy gens but like to see it in paper. and last: your opinion, is your opinion must be respected. But you must respect the rules of the forum. This is The Zigmeister post, and it is about the direction of reps world. Not about the quality or the opinions of the “L'orologio". If you want, you can start a new threat with this thema. Ah, for your information, in the last number of the "Armband Uhren" here in Germany, is a report of tourbillons, including the new chinese ones. And, for your information, they are starting to sell them by a German company. So, also in the Horologist world, the chinese movements are starting to be admited. Just the purist do not want to see it. As in cars, electronics, the chinese are starting to produce they our system, but that is another thema. The Zigmeister, thanks for your info, and sorry if my words are out the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Rob- Fabulous post. I have given this a lot of thought as well (since I am always looking for the next purchase). IMHO, there is no question that this is the golden age of reps from the perspective of building reps around quality ETA movements. They will most likely become more and more difficult to source. For this reason original movement reps have always been far and away my favorite - whether 2892/3 PAM GMT's and Power Reserves, 7753 Daylights (and upcoming 7753 187's), 2892 Frank Muller. etc. And on top of the movements you have different factories discontinuing various models making them collector's items in their own right - 007 SMP, old school 196 cases, with 7753 movements, etc. So from a movement perspective I am very concerned that we will begin the decline. But what I do find heartening is that the manufacurers are constantly improving their technology and have brought out high end reps for non-Rolex PAM brands. IMHO, in 2006 PAM's continue to improve however the dramatic improvements are for other "1:1" branded watches - AP RO properly sized, IWC GST, Ingenieur,etc. to name a few. Now they increasingly buy the actual watch and develop accurate measurements (whether thru CNC or more rudimentary methods). The manufacturers are even trying to incorporate some of the underlying advanced technology in the gen watches. Heck, they are putting a "magnetic shield" in the Ingenieur rep. If we step back, it was really only a few years ago that manufacterers and Dealers realized that the Japanese market would willingly pay 10-15% of the gen price for a good rep as that culture has for other branded luxury goods over a longer period of time. Then over the last 2 years the high wnd market for reps has shown dramatic growth outside of the Japanese market. I suspect we can thank the internet for that. The movement is the soul of a watch and the Swiss ETA which we all identify with so closely will be a declining item. However all the other improvements in 1:1 aesthetic elements and rudimentary technology give me hope that reps will continue to improve from an aesthetic perspective. If the alternative movements continue to improve I am optimistic for the future. But make no mistake the days of original movement reps are rapidly coming to an end. And so every time there is an original movement rep I think long and hard before I decide "not to buy." Fellfell- I think you are missing the mark on this one. As someone who has owned VC, Breguet, Rolex and Cartier gens over the years I would say you are kidding yourself. Gens are not the end all and be all. Since I started a systematic service program with my watches I have had far better luck with the reps then the gens. Most reps are not built to the same standard as gens but with proper care and service an original movement Rep should last. A rep is not a rep. A watch is a watch. And a properly serviced watch (whether rep or gen) will last a hell of alot longer than one that isn't. The other thing you should be aware of is that when Rob writes his posts he does not write as a supporter (or detractor) of reps but rather as a watch fanatic who grew up with them. He spent many years in the watch world before he ever saw a rep and to this day he spends more time working on invaluable vintage watches than our reps. Listen to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdavis Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Informative thread! Replicas have indeed shown many improvements in recent years. I think that this is a good trend and that the dealers and manufacturers are listening to the suggestions from more informed buyers. These forums are major contributors to the movement toward better quality and more accurate replicas. It is interesting to hear the comments made concerning the future of this "industry" as Eta will no longer be the provider of Swiss movements. There are other Swiss manufacturers that will not be restricted that likely will be more than happy to supply the market. Sellita makes movements which are very similar to Eta in performance and quality and I am sure there are others. Therefore, I believe that our Replicas could still be supplied with Swiss movements if the Asian manufactures of Replicas desire to do so. IMHO, the future looks pretty good for replica collectors and buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Rob I think you are 100% correct. I also feel we are at the pinnacle point of Replicas. I agree the ETA Swiss movements will dry up, and hopefuly the Chinese movements will continue to improve and agree we must have spare parts down the road. Look at the Titanium Reps that are not available any more. We might see one or two more, except I am sure not betting on it. I think our Reps are incredible today...And I thank people like you Rob for being here and repairing our watches and educating us all the time. Excellent foresight! -MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 I agree that titanium reps will only get rarer. As I understand it they are a bitch to work with and require some different tooling. Ergo, my ti Chrono Avenger, 036 and GST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pannylovernr1 Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Great post The Zigmeister! The urge for perfect is a motivator both for rep makers, dealers and us the end-buyers. Unlike when you buy a gen, you show it off to friends and can't really do anything to it anymore cause it's already perfect and you don't wanna ruin it making it less original. I never wear any of my gen anymore because I got bored with them, but loving wearing a rep because the thrill of getting caught wearing a spotted rep isn't funny, besides it's also an illegal product. Sorry for getting off topic here but what I wanted to say is that if reps wouldn't improve and all be pretty crappy then most watch enthusiasts would rather save up and get a gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Two thumbs up! Very well representing our current situation. I vote this as POM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 (edited) Nice write-up Rob, really. Just something to keep in mind to those that already started panicking re ETA mov'ts - the availability of real Swiss ETAs in reps has all but strated drying out, and we should enjoy an ample supply of those mov'ts in few more years to come, at least. What exactly will happen at 09/10 nobody knows exactly, the original 2007 deadline was already moved to 2010 on the intervention of Swiss watch industry. The word from our dealers is they're still available in simmilar numbers to 6 months ago or so, and no reason for panic @fellfell - don't be an idiot dude, you may know a lot about your genuine marquee watches, but your posts show you know bugger all about replicas and the movements they contain...the best you stay away from rep forums, for all of us. You managed to screw up and de-tour otherwise excellent post from one of the authorities of rep world. Call us "replica experts" or whatever, honestly I don't give rats ar$e about what you think. babola Edited November 5, 2006 by babola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvt Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I have now been involved with the various boards (though not so much this one mainly TRC and the other RWG plus RWCC before those) for about 5 years or so, maybe a bit more. During that time I have seen a HUGE range of quality and while we could get pretty damn good ETA based Submariners even 6 years ago the idea of something like a decent quality PAM or other non Rolex models is a relatively new development. I do think the quality has made MAJOR improvements and yet to some extent I understand with points being made that these are still low quality or over priced. The simple fact is that MOST fakes are in fact VERY poor quality. We are not talking about what members here buy, we are talking about canal street garbage. If you remove those from the picture you are left with some good parts being put into watches with ZERO quality control. This means that sometimes you get lucky, sometime you don't. As I have seen first hand (as chronicled in my posts a little over a year ago) at the watch markets in China the TRUE costs of these watches is almost shokingly low. When I see watches that we buy from trusted dealers for $300 being sold for $50 or less (and yes, these are the EXACT SAME watches) I can see how one would question the quality. It is true that the Chinese are often happy making what we might consider a small profit per watch (in other words that $50 watch my have cost $45 to produce) but still... for $45 what kind of REAL qualoty can be in there? You see, it is a double edged sword. On one side the quality IS MUCH better than it has ever been, on the other hand I think it is foolish to believe that the quality is anywhere near that of a genuine. Viewed as what they are fake watches are great fun and can offer suprising quality... but just remember that you are buying $50 watches, not "fine timepieces". The Zigmeister points out several specific high priced models with sme great movements, but those are rare and far and few in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omni Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I would consider fellfell an Italian "lost in translation" of Teevtee so give him a break if you can't understand. They both make the same point but TVT carries more weight and much more credentials from the long standing history of rep. collecting and participation in rep. forums, long before any of us, so he has a long tooth in dealing with the personal growth and truth of rep. collecting in his head that eventually all will have to deal with. TVT insists on calling them "fakes" much to the discomfort of those trying to find a sensible legitimacy for their addiction, thus the non-demeaning term "replica" which doesn't get used as much in handbags, pens, etc. copies. You have to stand back realistically and look at the BIG picture, not rep.expert.microscopically. "No forest for the trees, I just want to concentrate on the bark on this here particular copy of the tree." Reps. are reps. and appeal to innate reasons for each and every person; whether its wannabe status, ostentatiousness, envy, economy, thrift, sensibility, brand adoration, brand admiration, brand enthusiasm; I'm sure I've left out quite a few euphemisms other members could add. My previous thread post I optimistically stated I believe the rep. quality will sustain or get better. Free trade and better technology guarantees it. How many asian reps already are copied off of CAD scanning, it will increase. If you have to hang your hat on ETA movements as the be-all-to-end-all of reps then you are a purist rep. snob, and I find that an oxymoron. A rep. of a gen. will never compare to a gen. as its perfect copy, but geez, a rep. will never cost the same as a gen. Yeah that's right, why are you here, to get a rep. of a gen. or one of the quasi-side reason euphenisms stated above. But the difference is you can mod it to get it as close to perfection to please yourself, and maybe others. Its a hobby that is fun and enjoyable to many, and great satisfaction for those in the know, and absolutely idiotic to those people that don't know watches at all. In the past I've seen some of the best Ford Shelby wannabe body kits put on Mustangs, the owners are more knowlegeable and expert about the original car than the ones that can afford them as a status symbol. They have spent umpteen hours and money upgrading parts, engines, interiors to get to the closests facsimile to the genuine. You can never take that happiness away. If Ford stopped making engines for them they'd put a Chevy in them just so they'd go down the road and shine, and who knows, they might run better. I've seen a Chevy engine put into an old '64 RollsRoyce because the owner finally gave up on the expense of fixing and finding parts for the antique engine. Call that crazy but no one ever knew without lifting the hood/bonnet and it drove faster, smoother and better than the original. He couldn't sell it as an original but that wasn't the point, he had the satisfaction of driving down the road in his RR, albeit, he knew it was a rep. and it didn't bother him. Whatever floats your boat, its all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Outstanding little essay, The Zigmeister, one that provides some much-needed perspective in a forum filled with constant carping and nitpicking about things such as a logo placement being a tenth of a micrometer off, or the shape of a numeral being all but imperceptively more/less rounded than on the gen, blahblahblah. I've been on the forums for just over a year and, even in that time, have been amazed at the difference between reps I bought, say, 15 months ago and those available today, most recently the IWC FA Jones. With a rep this accurate, why would anyone want to fork over $10,000-plus for a genuine? Or the Patek 3919 I bought from EL that is essentially identical to the gen. You'd have to A-B the two side by side and even then it would take some time. I agree with you in that it's hard to see rep quality and accuracy getting much better than it is today (if it did, then you would essentially have a gen) and we should all be both thrilled and grateful to have access to such amazing watches at such low prices from such honest and reliable dealiers. You are a tremendous resoure here, Zig. Keep the posts coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvt Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Good post Omni, and I htink you "get" what I am saying. I love fake watches (and yes, I call them "fakes" not "replicas" because afterall, that is what they are and I like to be realistic about that fact) and I also love genuine watches. I sort of parallel collect both, and for different reasons. The truth is that fakes allow one to have a lot of variety and choice but it is not really about costs to me as much as it is about that hunt for the "perfect' clone. This is what The Zigmeister is talking about... We have all seen MASSIVE changes in the quality even in the last 2 years so much the last 5 or 6. This makes that hunt even more rewarding. So yes, things are getting better and better, but trust me when I tell you7 there is still a huge difference between fake and genuine in virtually ever case. The only question is whether the differences are worth the HUGE price difference. To some yes, to some no... but the days of ALL fakes being crap certainly are long over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaccum Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 Excellent post Rob Very good info! Cheers, vaccum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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