freddy333 Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 What do you think this dial is worth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivax Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Not too bad in fact Rolex except the too tall coronet. I would say in the 250-300 usd price range Gen for comparison: Edited March 14, 2013 by Olivax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) $300? That's a thing of beauty. To be honest, it's identical (don't have in hand right now) to the MQ dial I purchased recently. Beautiful. I'd say closer to $750. It's MQ/Phong quality if not better. Edited March 15, 2013 by danielv2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 It's a very good looking dial but all wrong for your build Freddy. Just send it to me and go find yourself a better one (of course I'm just kiddin') I know nothing about the Daytonas and such....is the marker at 6 position supposed to cover up "Swiss"..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 looks pretty good! The subdial numbers on the gen certainly are crisper and better defined,the serifs look a little p[rominent as well and as daniel said, the coronet is different, but who knows what was going on back then. I would bet that at regular watch size, under a crystal, it would be hard to tell the difference. I don't think this is a 300 buck dial though, probably closer to 1k, but i'm not to well versed on Daytonas. "I know nothing about the Daytonas and such....is the marker at 6 position supposed to cover up "Swiss"..?? Weird, why are all the other markers square, but the marker @ 6 has a rounded bottom ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivax Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 It's a very good looking dial but all wrong for your build Freddy. Just send it to me and go find yourself a better one (of course I'm just kiddin') I know nothing about the Daytonas and such....is the marker at 6 position supposed to cover up "Swiss"..?? +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivax Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 The more i see this dial and the more i love it!!! Freddy let us know the price pleaaasseeeee! Any chance to know the source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiesn089 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Good looking dial, really accurate. Personally I don't like PNs (yes, I said it ), but I'd certainly be willing to drop a lot on this one if I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 It's ok. I don't like the bottom of the subdials at 6 and 9, they look frayed.. The writing is too thick as well as on the minute track. The subdial numbers are placed slightly too far 'in' to the subdials. Also the actual dial background (the black part that the red minute track is printed on looks a bit strange, weird texture. I don't know how much this dial costs without seeing the back and a lower profile view but its all the same, there's always an issue or issues with rep PN dials. Horrible for a perfectionist like myself. My Minh dial was great but not perfect so I bought a gen non PN dial.. Edit: frayed part is bottom of subdial at 6 and side of subdial at 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 know nothing about the Daytonas and such....is the marker at 6 position supposed to cover up "Swiss"..?? I think that is just the camera angle & shadow, but I will know more when I see the dial in person. looks pretty good! The subdial numbers on the gen certainly are crisper and better defined,the serifs look a little p[rominent as well and as daniel said, the coronet is different, but who knows what was going on back then. I would bet that at regular watch size, under a crystal, it would be hard to tell the difference. I don't think this is a 300 buck dial though, probably closer to 1k, but i'm not to well versed on Daytonas. Weird, why are all the other markers square, but the marker @ 6 has a rounded bottom ? All the markers appear square to me. I have seen at least 7 different crowns on gen Newmans & the crown on this easily fits within the range of those. Otherwise, I think you nailed it. It's ok. I don't like the bottom of the subdials at 6 and 9, they look frayed.. The writing is too thick as well as on the minute track. The subdial numbers are placed slightly too far 'in' to the subdials. Also the actual dial background (the black part that the red minute track is printed on looks a bit strange, weird texture. I don't know how much this dial costs without seeing the back and a lower profile view but its all the same, there's always an issue or issues with rep PN dials. Horrible for a perfectionist like myself. My Minh dial was great but not perfect so I bought a gen non PN dial.. Edit: frayed part is bottom of subdial at 6 and side of subdial at 9 The 'fraying' is due to imperfections in the paint work & is typical of all aftermarket & some gen dials. It bothers neurotics like us, but is not an issue when the watch is viewed at an arm's length, which meets my benchmark for acceptability. I kind of agree with you about the placement (slightly too far inward) of the subdial printing, but, on the other hand, I am looking at some gens in my picture archive with similar placement, so I can live with it. That 'weird' texture along the minute track is typical of early Newman dials (mainly the 1st production runs) &, if done correctly, should be repeated (I hope) in the central whte area. This is 1 of the 1st details I look at when trying to authenticate Newman dials. The dial in question is Minh's & it matches the Minh dial in my '41, which is currently the most accurate aftermarket dial I have seen. Cost is $1,100. The 3 details that sold me on these are the properly wide horizontal P in COSMOGRAPH (this is the only aftermarket Newman I have seen that got that correct), the pad-printing that was used to make these (& the gens - pad-printing produces raised text, which reflects light from the side; laser-printing produces flat, 2-dimension text, which does not reflect light from the side) & that gently mottled texture of the minute track (& hopefully the central white area) Certainly, not perfect when viewed in magnification, but it would certainly fool me in an otherwise correct watch when viewed from an arm's length in the real world & I love the black 1 in my '41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Awesome looking pair Freddy. And I believe you're right. I zoomed in...it appears to be a shadow over the "swiss"....not the marker itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 I forgot to mention 1 other salient point - SWISS is rising on these dials, if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 And that's why it looks exactly like my MQ dial! I remember you commenting on the quality of the P when I showcased my MQ QC pics. Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Please excuse my ignorance guys but 1000 bucks for a rep dial and it has imperfections? Whats a gen go for? (if you could/can get one of course) Just looking for enlightenment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 A gen Newman dial, if you can find 1, would cost you $10,000-$20,000. In that context, while still psychotic, $1,100 for a pretty accurate aftermarket dial (that makes a franken look gen to most) makes some sense. Nah, it is still insane & I should be locked in a rubber room that ticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) If it's your passion then....yeah! It is a lovely looking dial. I guess if I stick at it for a couple of years then I'm sure the Mrs will understand "love, look at my new dial" how much was that "only 1k" BANG!! ouch Edited March 15, 2013 by ceejay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Oh, I didn't realize that the early PN's had that dial texture, cool. He did well then. I hate that Minh has the market cornered for these specific dials.. I emailed my new dial guy and he has a few PN's soon. I will post pics when I get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Oh, I didn't realize that the early PN's had that dial texture, cool. Early Newman dials had this surface texture The texture is not a requirement of authenticity, since most Newmans lack this, but it is 1 of those small details (along with 3-d dial lettering) that you generally only see on early gens. It is also 1 of the details that allow me to rationalize spending a ridiculous amount of money for a rep dlal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 It's amazing to see it zoomed in like that. Yes I can see that the texture is very grainy, if Minh got that right, which it looks like he did, then the other minor flaws are even more forgivable. It's just after my recent dealings with him I would love if someone else could make one as good or better so that there's a second option for people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Well, Minh certainly got my black dial right (though I did have to replace the crown with a gen (his old crowns looked alot like some of Phong's) & paint the square markers myself), which is why I went back to him for another white. It is just a matter of time until all the other aftermarket sellers have similar (or the same) dials for sale & only a bit longer until someone (maybe even Minh himself) bests these & for 1/3 the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 FACTOID - Gen dials like these Newmans (as well as 'red' Subs & SDs) are painted using a process called pad printing. You can search out the details, but, basically, it involves engraving the text (today, the plate is chemically etched) & dial details into a flat plate of copper or bronze (I forget exactly what type metal Rolex used). The plate is then cleaned & a swath of white paint is squeegeed across the engraving, depositing the paint only into the grooves below the plate surface, leaving the rest of the plate clear of paint. Then, a large, soft pad, shaped somewhat like an upside-down onion, is lowered onto the painted plate. The paint gets transferred onto the face of the pad, which is then lowered onto a dial blank, thus depositing the paint in the appropriate areas of the dial. The process is repeated as many times as required to raise & thicken the paint on the dial, as per the maker's specification. A new (clean) plate, containing only, say, the outer minute marks & DAYTONA for a Newman (or the word SUBMARINER in the case of a 'red' Sub) is installed in the table & red paint is squeegeed across the engraving. The pad is again brought down onto the plate to collect the red paint & then moved over & lowered onto the dial (which already has the white paint applied) to apply red paint on top of the white painted areas that are to be red. If a thicker application of red is required, the process is repeated. Over time, the red paint may wear off, which leaves the underlying white paint. This is why you may see a bit of white below the SWISS & red minute markers on the macro pic I posted above, or peeking out below SUBMARINER on some 'red' Subs or DRSDs. Most aftermarket dials are printed, as opposed to painted, which is why the printing is 2-dimensional on aftermarket dials & 3-d on gens (& Minh's Newmans). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpz5142 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 That exains this that I saw on eBay the other day, did not understand it at the time until just now after reading Freddy's post. http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=320821741886&index=3&nav=SEARCH&nid=08349605477 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 That is it - a pad printer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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