Is Panerai Still Hot?

[Mark Eleven]

There seems to be fewer posts on Panerai recently compared to a few months ago. Is PAM still hot among forumers here, or is it because of the Omega PO fever due to Casino Royale?

[Chronus]

It's winter time.

[ryyannon]

What's a Panerai?

Sounds like an Italian toaster.

[Dutchy]

I think its because of all the improvements on other brands.

[Mark Eleven]

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Edited November 27, 2006 by Mark Eleven

[Watchmeister]

In the gen world, PAM's are actually really picking up steam. In the rep world they continue to be excellent sellers and the diehards remain diehards but with the introduction of new brands (IWC's, Breitlings, VC's, etc.) they are going to get more forum time. IMHO, June 2005-June 2006 was the 12 months of PAM. June 2006-today IWC's, Breitlings and AP's. But the best part of all - the reps are getting better and better and the manufacturers are getting more and more innovative.

[Mark Eleven]

<deleted>

Edited November 27, 2006 by Mark Eleven

[fotoman]

If your pam is not still hot - put it back in the oven at 350 for 20 minutes

guaronteed to be HOT !!!

of course, when oyu do this for a while, you learn to like the stuff that comes out in quality. (at least alot of it)

were starved for non pam quality. its out - so it gets more discussion

in a few weeks i'll be showing off my newly modded trifecta of panerai

[Dario33]

Short answer: yes

Long answer: Recently, there have been quite a few non-Pam replica's that have surfaced and they have (rightfully) garnered much attention.

[tech]

In the gen world, PAM's are actually really picking up steam. In the rep world they continue to be excellent sellers and the diehards remain diehards but with the introduction of new brands (IWC's, Breitlings, VC's, etc.) they are going to get more forum time. IMHO, June 2005-June 2006 was the 12 months of PAM. June 2006-today IWC's, Breitlings and AP's. But the best part of all - the reps are getting better and better and the manufacturers are getting more and more innovative.

True. Its funny as I was starting to believe that Panerai's weren't as hot as they used to be...colleagues of mine were claiming my Panerai's were the passing fad as the Grahams Swordfish/Chronos were the new watch to have... mmmm kay....

IMO, I think the Pannies are here to stay...they are clean, simple and uncluttered...just friggin huge to the non PIS...

cheers

[Mark Eleven]

Sure I'll agree PAM is here to stay. Clean, simple and uncluttered design -- classic!

Edited November 27, 2006 by Mark Eleven

[tvt]

Although I love PAMs and own a gen as well as many fakes I actually doubt they will be long term watches (meaning continuing to be popular in 5-10 years). They have every halmark of a passing fad.

Now again, don't get me wrong, I really like tham and I think they WILL be around for a while longer (and the brand will live on for a long time, just not be as popular), but think about how trends change.

20 years ago THIN was the big deal in watches. the thinner it was the better, a Rolex day date was considered HUGE and THICK. As things change people react against whatever starts to feel old so the largr watch ttrend began to emerge. Finally in the mid 90's the first PAM size watches started to appear and that trend has continued to build to this day. Suddenly watches cannot be too big, you have ludicrous sizes liek 47mm or even 50mml, watches that are literally bigger than the wirsts of their owners! Well as things move forward a reaction to these large sizes will occur and watches will again change. Maybe they will be smaller or differently shaped or whatever, but they WILL change. PAMS will likely become somehting liek Movados. A watch that was once VERY popular and still has some loyal fans, but whose heyday is behind it.

Very few watches manage to just live on in a timeless manner. Most notably you have Rolex because they have built a name and simply never change and Patek which has a well earned reputation and builds (mostly) very classic and conservative watches. Any company that builds classic watches does not have to worry abotu change, but Panerai is more of a trend watch (even though it helped set that trend) than anything classic.

So to answer your question, YES, they are still "hot" but the clock is sstrating to tick and I bet in 5 years they will not be as popular as they are now.. or maybe they will change into something totally new to keep up.

[AMK000]

Hmmmm .....

Lets say that PAMs are just .... warm (temparure has fallen quite a lot ... which is normal since you cannot stay hot for almost 3 to 4 years as PAMs did).

Its also quite clear (to me at least) that CHN rep makers are swifting attention to other brands.

For every PAM new model that comes out you get 4 to 5 new models on other brands. That was not case 12 to 22 months ago but it is now.

Also , on the PAM side , the new models that comes out , are not (in many cases) trully new models. Are simple variations of an existing one (eg: North Pole vs North Pole GMT).

12 months from now PAMs will have less fans so then we will see who are true PAM fanatics (less in numbers I guess but not few any way).

[mrnixon]

From my point of view the PAMs are ideal replica watches for two reasons. One is that they are rather special in terms of design and size. I have been thinking about buying a genuine Pam but I dont know if I want to spend so much money on a watch that is a bid odd, so I will buy a rep and keep it for a while and thn if it feels right I will probably go for a gen. The other reason while I like the Pam rep is that it seems to be a rather simple watch. The is no moving bezel, no chronograph, no screw crown etc that can break. It means that the job of the producer of the watch should be fairly easy and then I will get a watch that will not cause me any problems.

I am though a total novice when it comes to reps, but this was the reason why I have decided to buy one.

[sssurfer]

Well, what I can say is that before knowing of RWG, TRC and so, I thought to be one of the only 100 people in the world to be in knowledge of (and in love with ) something called Panerai.

I got really surprised (and naturally delighted) in discovering they were considered "hot".

Even on those premises, it is quite a long time now I that did not purchase a PAM.

In my case this is due to the choice, by the Officine, to produce as new models essentially sandwich-dial models and sub models, or sub-like e.g. the Arktos.

I love sandwich dials, but as long as they prevent from date window I think I am not going to get one of them -- or at most one. And I don't like the PAM subs and Arktos.

Nevertheless, I think that PAMs are here to stay. Once you try a large watch on your wrist it is quite hard to step back. And once you try something with the easy readability and strong charachter of a PAM, it is even harder.

I suppose that any time the Officine (or rep manufacturers ) would release a new really appealing model then we'll witness a new rush of interest. But people like me seem currently getting tired of purchasing a new PAM just because it's a PAM.

And I feel this is good.

[hambone]

There is a certain mystique and allure when it comes to Panerai watches unlike any other brand on the market and it is growing. Look at all the people posting in Paneristi and other sites not to mention the several rep sites. Panerai is a mid 20th century creation and this generation, as well as future generations are going to continue to embrace the clean asthetics and simple beauty of these superb Italian watches. No, they are going to increase in popularity and in time will be a household name like Rolex. It may take time, but the bottom line is that great quality lasts and there is always a customer for that kind of product.

[rsv123]

I think Pams are coming off the boil slightly. Based entirely on some anecdotal evidence, but the sales and accessories sections of Paneristi.com seem to be slowing... don't know why, could be that there is increasing competition in the big watch arena, or less disposable income to go around.

Personally, I hope the price of 2nd hand models drops a little. So I can snap up a bargain!

[V]

Pams are hotter than ever

[Watchmeister]

I am also hopeful that Gen PAM's will come down in price in the secondary market as Richemont continues to step up production - especially on the manuals. In everyday life I see more and more PAM's on folks' wrists. And all the new PAM's I see tend to be automatics. PAM, in spite of what we think of as a rich heritage, is a very new brand in the context of horology. It was less than 10 years ago that Panerai introduced its first automatic with date. Since then it has added non-SS models, smaller 40mm models and now the new Ferrari models. The next phase will be their own movements as evidenced by the 8 day movement (which is really just a derivative of the original JLC movement). IMHO, you can bet the staying power of Panerai will be based on the level of interest that Richemont maintains in the brand. On the rep side, we do have to bear in mind that the higher end reps we obsess over are a very small percentage of the reps produced. In our market, those people who like PAM's oftern already have several. As such people are eager to expand their collection as the better reps for other brands continue to come out.

In the long term, I don't think larger watches will go the way of the bell bottom - or at least not that quickly. All the traditional watchmakers are recognizing this trend. Younger people seem to want the larger watches and in order for the mechanical watch market to survive it will have to follow trends. Even the traditional brands (AP being the one that I think of first) are adapting their lines to reflect this. Finally, we do have to bear in mind that in spite of all the various new models that are coming out PAM makes very few units every year relative to other $3k-$10k watch brands. The trends we see here relating to PAM's is miniscule in the context of the overall mechanical watch market.

[sailboat641]

Here in chicago, the dealers claim that the Panerai brand is still very hot and selling better than ever. My local AD sold out of almost all the watches with the exception of 7 models.

I've been tracking the price of the watches for several months hoping during the holiday season the pricing would drop a bit, but it has not come down even $1 from MSRP. I asked how the online dealers were selling for hundreds cheaper, but according to them, most online dealers are not authorized dealers and the warranty is void if purchased through them. Not sure if this is true or not.

Although they didn't discount on the watch it self, the store manager offered to throw in 2 additional bands free of charge, so yesterday, I popped my Panerai cherry and got the 104.

I've purchased several PAM reps to save some loot, but now that plan has gone down the drain. Not sure what the relatives will think of me when they get boxed chocolate for the holidays....at least I got some nice authentic straps for the reps.

[crystalcranium]

Although I love PAMs and own a gen as well as many fakes I actually doubt they will be long term watches (meaning continuing to be popular in 5-10 years). They have every halmark of a passing fad.

Now again, don't get me wrong, I really like tham and I think they WILL be around for a while longer (and the brand will live on for a long time, just not be as popular), but think about how trends change.

20 years ago THIN was the big deal in watches. the thinner it was the better, a Rolex day date was considered HUGE and THICK. As things change people react against whatever starts to feel old so the largr watch ttrend began to emerge. Finally in the mid 90's the first PAM size watches started to appear and that trend has continued to build to this day. Suddenly watches cannot be too big, you have ludicrous sizes liek 47mm or even 50mml, watches that are literally bigger than the wirsts of their owners! Well as things move forward a reaction to these large sizes will occur and watches will again change. Maybe they will be smaller or differently shaped or whatever, but they WILL change. PAMS will likely become somehting liek Movados. A watch that was once VERY popular and still has some loyal fans, but whose heyday is behind it.

Very few watches manage to just live on in a timeless manner. Most notably you have Rolex because they have built a name and simply never change and Patek which has a well earned reputation and builds (mostly) very classic and conservative watches. Any company that builds classic watches does not have to worry abotu change, but Panerai is more of a trend watch (even though it helped set that trend) than anything classic.

So to answer your question, YES, they are still "hot" but the clock is sstrating to tick and I bet in 5 years they will not be as popular as they are now.. or maybe they will change into something totally new to keep up.

Fantastic post. Couldn't have said it better.

As I've stated before, I find nothing interesting about the engineering of a mechanical watch that has almost limitless space in which to operate. The incorporation of pocket watch movements into wristwatches is a trend that bucks hundreds of years of holorogy engineering for finer, smaller, thinner and less obtrusive movements. Putting an accurate timepiece onto a person's wrist and have it small enough to not intrude has been the driving force behind this fantastic miniturization of these machines from the begining. I think mechanicals and those who design the aesthetics of their cases are just going through a compensation period having been left for dead by the quartz revolution. It's a case of chest thumping saying, "We're back and we're bigger than ever!" This is a bump in the road in the timeless trend of refinement accross the board in all brands.

I think Panerai will always be around. I also think these chunkers will be looked at some day as curiosity pieces.

[jkerouac]

Some of you will probably pounce on me for saying this, but I don't think Panerai will remain as hot as it is today.

Granted, the classic Pam design is wonderfully clean and elegant. But there isn't enough difference between different Pam model lines to justify accumulating a large collection-- a Luminor, a Radiomir, and perhaps a chrono and/or GMT for me. (The submersibles are not particularly attractive, in my opinion).

At least if you are into Rolex, Omega, IWC, or even Breitling there are more significant differences between models to justify a large single-brand collection.

Yes, I know there are people intent on collecting every variation of Pam just as there are people whose collections include 10 different models of Roxex Submariner.

But in the long run, I think more collectors are interested in breadth than in that kind of depth.

[tvt]

>>>There is a certain mystique and allure when it comes to Panerai watches unlike any other brand on the market and it is growing. Look at all the people posting in Paneristi and other sites not to mention the several rep sites. Panerai is a mid 20th century creation and this generation, as well as future generations are going to continue to embrace the clean asthetics and simple beauty of these superb Italian watches. No, they are going to increase in popularity and in time will be a household name like Rolex. It may take time, but the bottom line is that great quality lasts and there is always a customer for that kind of product.

<<<<

I don't think people really understand the true "history" of Panerai and are instead falling for hype.

First of all there is nothing remotely "Italian" about Panerai. They are not made in Italy or owned by an Italian company. Secondly the real history of Panerai is about 10 years old, they are NOT mid century time peices.

Panerai was a supplier to the military and a small watch shop. They made things like sights for guns and other similar functional tools.

During WWII the Italian Navy (which in itself was an absolute joke) commisioned them to make a couple of specific watches for them. Panerai used Rolex movements and designed cases out of pure function. Aesthetics were NOT a concern, there was no great design statement. this would be the equivilent of some tool company making a surverying level or something... it was a TOOL.

So over the course of the war they made a handful of these watches, a literal handful, under 30 TOTAL. That was that... the end for decades. Sure, they made the occasional prototype this or that but in reality Panerai was NOT a watch company and did not produce watches in any numbers or on any regular basis for either the military or the public.

In the eraly 90's they started to make a couple of specifically commisioned watches for Sylverster Stalone and then in 1997 were purchased by Richmont Group who owns Cartier and many luxury brands. THIS is where the REAL history of Panerai watches begins.

The Richmont Group did a VERY good job at marketing these watches. In a direct reaction to the return of automatic watches and the trend towards large watches they started creating simple watches based on the look of those original few WWI pieces. More importantly they marketed them as limited editions and played up the slight connection they had with the past. Unlike many other companies that had real history panerai has a fictitious history designed to give them a marketing hook. "These are the frogmen watches from WWII" the ads claimed, giving them instant (though false) credibility. The watches shared NOTHING in common with those few tool watches from WWII other than being designe dto look a bit like them.

Panerai went on to be REALLY good at creating demand for the watches by releasing them in limited numbers... a great ploy that created a lot of collectors. I love them, I buy into the whole deal but I alos know it is total B.S. By that I mean that there is no history here, there is nothing of actual historical significance or meaning. Panerai is EXACTLY like bell bottoms or any other fad. Some last a long time, some burn out very quickly. it is impossible to say if Panwerai as a company will be around in 50 years or not. But it is safe to say that for Panerai to survive as more than a niche company they will have to change as people's tatses and trends change. Thes eare not "classic" timeless designs nor are the Rolex (the only sports watch company that manages to survive and thrive without significant change).

Sales ofr Panerai (gens) are actually down. This is fact. You can now actaually often see limited editions and some of the more "rare" peiced available at dealers. They are not common by any means but the day of having to wait a year for a watch are over. Panerai has probably produced too many watches at this point, they are making many more than they used to and this works against the mystique they did such a good job creating.

So are they hot? Sure they are, they are popular fashion pieces that trednsetters have embraced, but like all such things be they cars or fashion or music or whatever those same trendsetters will move on and it is THEN that we see how good Panerai really is as staying relevant.

[V]

Edited...

[panerai153]

I believe that they will not hold up popularity wise over the long haul. It looks like the market is softening a bit already. All trends have a life expectancy and a pretty predictable growth and decline curve. I read somewhere, and have had this reinforced by comments from folks that are in the know as well as personal observation, trend life cycles are around 6-7 years. Be it an upsurge in popularity for a sport, tennis, golf, running,etc. (clothing follows a shorter life cycle). I saw this happen several years ago when I was involved with one of the sporting breeds of dogs. we established field trials and even a National champoinship. Some of the consultants told us that we had better have enough growth and new participants to sustain the momentum, because after the magic 7 years, very few of the original participants would still be around. We found this to be very true. People's taste change as they get older, wealthier, poorer, you name it. Their taste in watches changes as well. Panerai may buck the trend and stay very popular, but I just cannot see it as popular 10 years from now as it was a couple of years ago.

I think that the big watch fad will slowly lose popularity. We had this same discussion a couple of weeks back on the Doxa Forum. Rolex is still the gold standard of "tool watches" with the SD and Sub. they are 40mm watches, and Rolex can't make them fast enough. Maybe there will always be "big" watches like there will always be "Small" watches, but over the long haul, the standard will continue to be watches in the 40-42mm range.

Just my Dos Centavos