morgan Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 So do the 7750's need to be serviced when we get them or not? I'm still unclear on that point. I'll say this.. if I'm going to be spending $175 everytime they crack open the caseback... I'm going to spend that money on tools and videos so I can do it myself. How difficult is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 So do the 7750's need to be serviced when we get them or not? I'm still unclear on that point. I'll say this.. if I'm going to be spending $175 everytime they crack open the caseback... I'm going to spend that money on tools and videos so I can do it myself. How difficult is it? As i've stated, no service necessary until the movement needs it. A basic service involves a complete disassembly of all components, cleaning, oiling with movement specific oils, and regulation. Not for the faint of heart or novice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 You spend $350 on a watch and then have to send it in to be serviced for another $200. You are now $550 into the watch not including shipping or any other work on it you may have done. If it is a PAM or many other watches you will also need to replace the strap. So suddenly you have a $700 fake watchwith a VERY questionable movement that you will have real problems getting serviced anywhere outside of this board and which replacement parts are nonexistent. I don't know, seems like that $700 could be MUCH better spent on either gens or more dependable fakes. That's some questionable maths. Say you spend $350 ... no, more like $250 for a chrono, and you then get it serviced by the best for $200, followed by a $100 strap. You then have a $450 watch and a $100 strap. If the whole thing breaks, you can drop in a gen 7750 for whatever that costs you. Just because a watch breaks doesn't mean the strap is ruined or that you can't get it fixed cheap. If you choose not to buy 7750s because you don't get the maths, that's perfectly fine. I'd never dream of spending $700 on a rep, either, unless I got the Frankenbug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvt Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I'm not sure where we are going with this. OF COURSE gens have problems as well, I don't think anyone would argue that, but the point is that those problems (aside from generally being much less frequent) can easily be repaired and fixed, usually under warranty. But this is not a discussion of ggen versus fake quality, obviously high end gens are better made but you pay for it. Rgarding how fit and finish effect performance... well, they just do, just like how ANY mechanical device is fit together effects how it runs. But don't get me wrong, when I talk about fit and finish a lot of it has more to do with just an appreciation of the quality rather then a direct corilation to how it functions. To get back on topic however I have been involved with the various boards for 6 years (since the VERY beginning of the first one) and by far, hands down, not even close, the movement with the most problems are ALWAYS the Asian 7750s. That's enough proof for me right there. I have never had any issues with any other movements and yet I have had 7750s show up dead on arrival or just seize up within days. I cannot pass all of these problems off simply on poor QC. I know The Zigmeister says they seem to work once serviced and I respect his opinion very much (he certainly knows a LOT more about movements than I ever will) and yet I still must respectfully disagree to some extent. I just know that Asian 7750s have a TON of issues and I would rather not spend $200 to have a watch serviced the day after I buy it.... I think it is really a known fact that Asian 7750 based watches have more problems than any other so I take that at face value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I'm not sure where we are going with this. OF COURSE gens have problems as well, I don't think anyone would argue that, but the point is that those problems (aside from generally being much less frequent) can easily be repaired and fixed, usually under warranty. But this is not a discussion of ggen versus fake quality, obviously high end gens are better made but you pay for it. Rgarding how fit and finish effect performance... well, they just do, just like how ANY mechanical device is fit together effects how it runs. But don't get me wrong, when I talk about fit and finish a lot of it has more to do with just an appreciation of the quality rather then a direct corilation to how it functions. To get back on topic however I have been involved with the various boards for 6 years (since the VERY beginning of the first one) and by far, hands down, not even close, the movement with the most problems are ALWAYS the Asian 7750s. That's enough proof for me right there. I have never had any issues with any other movements and yet I have had 7750s show up dead on arrival or just seize up within days. I cannot pass all of these problems off simply on poor QC. I know Ziggy says they seem to work once serviced and I respect his opinion very much (he certainly knows a LOT more about movements than I ever will) and yet I still must respectfully disagree to some extent. I just know that Asian 7750s have a TON of issues and I would rather not spend $200 to have a watch serviced the day after I buy it.... I think it is really a known fact that Asian 7750 based watches have more problems than any other so I take that at face value. Well..., I dont want to get into this any deeper or more emotionally. I respect your opinion and experience. I just seems to me most of your argument is based in "I've seen lots of them" and "It just is". The fact that Rob, as a mechanic and micro engineer, says these movements are fine carries far more weight than your observations or my opinions. i wish he was around to chime in, maybe I'm overstating what would be his case a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I have had this discussion with many people over the years.... Seems that some people do their best to avoid risk... and some simply take that chance to enjoy what they desire... I fall into that second group, and have never regretted it, as I have really loved my chronograph reps and find them to be the best of tool watches that are available... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I checked out a thread in the expert area and I see to clean or not to clean has been hashed out ad nauseam. I saw pics that The Zigmeister had of 7750 gears and such w/ gunk and it looked pretty scary. Lots of disagreement here and I guess everybody has an opinion. I think that if I had an extra $250 in my pocket for service I'd add it to another $250 for the watch and get a real ETA model ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 It is one of the most reputable dealers on the board, so but since the watches are lost on the way from me to him, I don't know how it works. Will send him a mail today.. Its a shame to loose over $500 + having two more faulty watches that I don't dare to send back because I am afraid that they will get lost again. So basically I have lost $1000. Regards Why not book the broken ones in with a watchmaker rather than write them off most mech things can be repaired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Is it true--in terms of normal wear & tear/breakage--that it doesn't matter (even on the 7750 Asians) if you let the chronos constantly run, instead of always keeping them off? I thought I read somewhere that their constant running was either irrelevant or might actually help them. I could be off on this one, but I could have sworn I've seen that from The Zigmeister or someone... And does anyone know if it's actually worth springing for the new secs @ 6 swiss movemnt (i.e. Josh's Daytona), instead of the new Asian secs @ 6? Or is that one also a time-bomb because of the extra gears needed to make it run @ 6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I checked out a thread in the expert area and I see to clean or not to clean has been hashed out ad nauseam. I saw pics that The Zigmeister had of 7750 gears and such w/ gunk and it looked pretty scary. Lots of disagreement here and I guess everybody has an opinion. I think that if I had an extra $250 in my pocket for service I'd add it to another $250 for the watch and get a real ETA model ? Those dirty movements were only on some of the old movements... newer models come sometimes,. dry but clean. Yes, sometimes if you can get a proper fit,.. a gen 7750 movt would be best,..which is still no guarantee... genuine movements also fail..... When you take it all in.. paying $250 is less risk than $750 plus... for just ... a smaller percentage of risk.. I believe the concensus is that for the best possible results for the lowest cost is to purchase a pre-owned Asian 7750 that has passed the test of time, as it seems that failure happens within the first few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvt Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I don't think there is a right answer or a wrong answer in terms of wether it is worththe "risk" or not for any inndividual. That is opinion and my opinion is no more valid that yours. So If any single person feels it is worth it then great, I see nothing wrong with that at all. But all I can do is talk from my personal experiences, I am NOT a watchmaker, I cannot tell you why a movement works or does not work. What I can tell you however is what I have personally seen and that is that the only watches I have had major problems with are Asian 7750 based. In addition the MASS majority of any watch people seem to have issues with are Asian 7750 based. I think it has to be more than just some freak coincidence. So then one can argue that the movement itself can be fine, but they are not assembled well and therefore will need to be serviced. OK, I can buy that but if I spend $300 on a watch and $200 on service then I am in for $500 before I even change straps or do anything else (re-lume etc.). In my opinion that is not a great deal, I would either rather spend that money on ETA based fakes that do not have as many issued or buy a gen if it is the right watch. But again, that is just me, not saying it is what EVERYONE should do. I do feel that as a genral question though... Are Asian 7750's a good movement I think the honest answer is no. Whether it is because of design or fit and finish or assembly does not really matter. What matters to me is that the watch runs well and in my experience the Asain 7750s do not (as evidence I just had a PAM 87 with one show up dead, and it is NOT the first time that has happened). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 All I can say is that I have followed The Zigmeister's recommendations on the 7750,.. with regards to the question of weather it's worth it or not, or the risks involved, and the do's and don'ts of operating them,.. and his advice born of hundreds of servicings, has not failed me yet, even though I have never had them serviced. As for the cost when having them serviced.... I think the apt comparison is to the genuine article, not a legal clone no name watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 All I can say is that I have followed Ziggy's recommendations on the 7750,.. with regards to the question of weather it's worth it or not, or the risks involved, and the do's and don'ts of operating them,.. and his advice born of hundreds of servicings, has not failed me yet, even though I have never had them serviced. As for the cost when having them serviced.... I think the apt comparison is to the genuine article, not a legal clone no name watch. If the asian 7750 wasnt worth servicing, Rob wouldn't offer the service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvt Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I still think this is missing the point. Most problems people have with fake watches (at least fakes of decent quality) revolve around the Asian 7750. So if someone just asks in general "is this a good movement" I can't see any logical answer other than no, because the evidence is just overwhelming that the 7750 has more problems than other movements. Now one might argue that they really like a particular style watch that is only available with a 7750, and thertefore in order to get that watch it is worth the money to have it serviced. I can buy that, but the 7750 DOES have more problems than other movements... we are not arguing that, are we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 In general, the more moving parts a watch has, the more potential problems, however that is a watch issue, not a Asian 7750 one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I believe the concensus is that for the best possible results for the lowest cost is to purchase a pre-owned Asian 7750 that has passed the test of time, as it seems that failure happens within the first few months. In my limited experience, if it's going to die, it does so in its first week or so of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I have bought 2 IWC Chrono Domino (for myself and a friend of mine) just when they were available, so in september i think. They are today both out of order and at the watchsmith for diag I also have 3 PAM with 6497 (CN & CH), and all are at the top I'have read all of goods instructions about the new 7750, and always take care of it, but IMO today is that this movt with sec @6 it's really crap and can't be trust for that price (270$) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 In my limited experience, if it's going to die, it does so in its first week or so of use. I stand corrected...... I think the 7750, is much maligned, for various reasons of higher costs, and posts like these, where people will post their negative experience with them, while failing to either admit any responsibility, or forgetting the similar problems they may have had with other non chrono movements, that came in doa or broke down soon after, weather gen, or rep. This I feel does more harm than good for those who would like to experience a chronograph replica. Why ? If your watch fails here in rwg,.. then hey, you have protection with our dealers,.. and if not then you have a fun watch to play with,.. so why all the debate ? Life's too short,.. let's enjoy our toys..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I stand corrected...... If your watch fails here in rwg,.. then hey, you have protection with our dealers,.. and if not then you have a fun watch to play with,.. so why all the debate ? On one side you're right but i can' be agrre with you Richard : i should be ok if this kind of issue were very occasional (not sure of the english word ) but in this case there are to many pb on this movt !!! You are right again when you say that we can use DOA from our dealer. I am in this case : i have bought all my watches from the same (a really good one : Joshua ) but send him back the watch doesn't guaranty me of not having the same pb in 2 month (contrary of ùy 3 PAM with 6497 !!), and to add shipping cost for it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvt Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 If any individual has had ggood luck with the 7750s the GREAT but count yourself lucky. It really is just the truth that they break MUCH more often then any other movement, so why not just be honest about that? If peopel still want to try it then OK but in my opinion there are much better ways to spend that money on superior watches. It is true, that when my PAM 87 for exampel arrived DOA the dealer (EL) took care of it and had it replaced. But it is pretty silly that I cannot set the date during half the day and have all sorts of other rules to remember. Those are all signs that it is a flawed movement and the experiences of many, many members here bears truth to that. I have no reason to bad mouth the thing, I do not sell genuine movements or something, I am just relating my experiences and those of many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I thought a lot of those rules for the 7750 applied to the swiss 7750 too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 But it is pretty silly that I cannot set the date during half the day and have all sorts of other rules to remember. Those are all signs that it is a flawed movement. Those rules are for all 7750's Swiss or Asian.... Just goes to prove that chronographs, are not for everyone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Like the person who gets into seven car accidents per year, or goes through three failed transmissions or engines in an row...we can't explain them all but user error is a factor.... Thank you. I appreciate being called an idiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Why not book the broken ones in with a watchmaker rather than write them off most mech things can be repaired Sure, if you can find me one. I have't found a single person who wants to lay their hands on a rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Oh yea, it just figures... I only have a few minutes a day for the forum, and the interesting debates start up... All I have time to add is my two cents (for whatever it's worth) This discussion (to service or not) can apply to all watches, gen's alike...even if you bought a Speedmaster new or used, your eventually going to have to get it serviced, so the question is more of "when" to service vs "will I service it". I have stopped to service, or refuse to service a number of movements. Why? Well because it was a waste of the customer's money... Of the dozens of 7750's I have serviced, I only know of one failure so far... If I did not think it was worth servicing, honestly, I would not be offering the service. Think of my warranty, why would I want to have all these watches sent back to me for warranty service - if I knew that servicing was a waste of time and money- do I really want to spend all my time and money on warranty work??? Would you?? Sorry, got to go, hope the discussion continues... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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