Opinion needed on these Gen 5513 and 1680 cases

[pam007]

I figured who other than a rep community to figure out the validity of the Rolex Mid Case.

 

Please check them out and share with us on whether you believe this case to be Gen or Rep.

I have gotten multiple differing opinions on the Rolex forum from senior members via private messaging.  

 

I will not disclose who the seller is, so as to keep it objective

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111466357829?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111466360840?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111466355592?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[lionsandtigers]

Knowing the seller, who is quite a name in the Vintage Community, and after back and forths with a trusted friend on these cases, we've concluded that they are gen, but completely refurbished.

Including the model and serial engravings. The seller is big in the vintage world, and we both find it hard to believe he would advertise and sell aftermarket cases, especially saying they were gen.

I think the value of these cases have been pretty much halved due to the work done on them.

[dbane883]

Upon closer inspection, I am 99.9% certain that they are not only completely refurbished (not just polished), but several sections have been laser welded.  Look closely at one of the lugs.  You can see where the two metals have been melded together.. Not very well in fact:

 

 

 

When done right, and only using the same quality steel (e.g. 316), a good polisher will be able to restore so that the damage was imperceptbile.

 

Here's an example of a good before, during and after of a lazer weld:

[pam007]

what does it mean to refurbish model and serial engravings?

[pam007]

Good Catch Dbane.  Very informative as always !

Thanks 

[droptopman]

I am looking at another case from the same seller.    

[panerai153]

If you are building a super Franken these would be great cases, however if you are building a gen, keep in mind that if you decide to sell, you will get dinged for that refinished case.

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[automatico]

"what does it mean to refurbish model and serial engravings?"

 

Numbers only are probably not too bad if they have been worn away but it would have to be professionally done with the same numbers and in the same font to be legit.

As for welding a case where it was damaged and or corroded...to me it means someone has turned a junk case into a sellable case. Without full disclosure it is a scam, not much better than an aftmkt case sold as genuine. 

 

The second link shows a case with considerable corrosion around the case neck. I would not buy it...not at $800 for a swiss cheese case. Corrosion is corrosion no matter what the brand name is.

Look at how slick the rest of it is, no telling what has been done to it.

If you took a watch with this case to rwc they would Demand! you buy a new case, not work on it, or not guarantee it to be water resistant past the front door.

 

All imho as usual.  

[panerai153]

There was a big controversy over in the Vintage Rolex Forum a while back about this sane problem. There was a seller there who consistently had a big supply of "mint" vintage watches. Like he had found the keys to a huge vault full of NOS Rolex watches from the 60's and 70's. Just too many all in one place. Some folks got suspicious and accused the seller of refinishing the cases, laser welding to build up lugs, etc.and then refinishing to look like new. Not sure how this came out, but there were a lot of folks who were very upset, especially some folks who bought these watches and paid top prices for them. One buyer was going to get his case X-rayed to see if he could detect any weld seams.

Renewing for your own use and full disclosure if you sell is OK, selling a refurbished case as a pristine unpolished case is downright fraud.

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[automatico]

Go to the VRF search and type in 'laser welded cases' or something similar and you can see what was said about it.

[pam007]

Thanks for all the info guys. 

 

The most import part is that they are Gen Cases.

 

Refurbished is a plus for me as I will be wearing the watch for a very very long time.

Being that I have been looking for a vintage 5513 Gen case for over a year with no luck, coupled with the fact that the current prices are cheaper than Phong.. I think it's a no brainer.

[imajedi]

This reminds me of how people bondo up the side panels of rusted cars to make them look good.

The price people pay for "original" vintage watches is ridiculous. I just want the damn thing to look great. I could care less how it got there. I mean I want the watch to be original as in it doesn't have fake parts but if I can pay a lot less for a case that's looks perfect but was refurbished, that's great. I mean it's gonna go on my wrist and I'm going to add my own marks anyway. And here's one that's interesting. If a case has been polished, you can typically tell mostly because it's too perfect. Put take a case that's been polished (professionally with the right chamfers etc.) and wear it for another ten years and then try and detect of it was polished at one time or not. This "untouched" "all original" thing is stupid. It's one big guessing game just completely overrun with fraud.