Nanuq Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 ........or is it?? What do you think?http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=271776739709 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximo101 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Looks real to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Any other thoughts? Here's mine: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Looks like a well loved 300T to me Nuqi. And a bargain. Weird it went unsold. I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 OK, Here's my take it's gen, the dial has been redone, very poorly. the DOXA in the upper left is wrong, wrong fonts, look at Nanug's and mine, also it looks like a kid tried to relume the dial plots!! The hands are wrong, as he stated. Big problem with these, as we have discussed here and on the Doxa forum Ad nauseam, there are no parts for these watches. Sure you can replace the movement as there are replacements, but dials, hands, bracelets, even gaskets and crystals are just not available. I probably owned at least a dozen vintage and a half dozen modern Doxas, I sold all but three, the watch pictured, which was my first Doxa the 300T professional "Agua Lung" that I bought, my wife's Coralline I bought from Peter Millar, and the pre Professional diver that's in Pete's book. I got very frustrated chasing my tail trying to find parts to restore some that just needed a few little things to make them really nice. I sent a Sub 600 to RGM who at the time was the Doxa Service center in the USA, they kept the watch for 8 months and finally sent it back unfixed because they couldn't get the crystal gasket or the caseback gasket (Although I don't think they tried too hard!!) I think they were just waiting until the parts dropped out of the sky or I gave up. So to get this jewel back to it's original condition is probably and impossible task. the dial can be cleaned up and possibly refinished, but finding hands and a BOR bracelet, Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Looks like a well loved 300T to me Nuqi. And a bargain. Weird it went unsold. I would. I think from the questions and answers in the post, he closed it early because he had some offers at more than he was asking on Ebay, which is insane, but to each his own!! Lots of those old Doxas get recycled through ebay when the owners find out how hard it is to try to restore one. Nanug's 300 is what they are supposed to look like!! His is well loved, and well preserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Well loved, to me, means beat to within an inch of it's life on a regular basis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Well loved, to me, means beat to within an inch of it's life on a regular basis... Well the one on EBay definitely fits your criteria. I believe that what a lot of folks don't realize is these were really tool watches. the Doxas and even some early Blancpains were sold in Dive shops, not Mall stores or a watch boutique or jewelry store. The guys that bought them were divers, and most of them got beat to hell and back. I bought mine from the daughter of a guy who was a commercial diver for the city of San Francisco for about 25 years. I'm sure if mine could talk, it would have some real tales to tell!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Another great Doxa discussion, guys! Just between you, me and the fencepost, I don't think it was a real Black Lung. I think that was a repro US Divers sticker in the 3rd quadrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I don't think so Nuqi... With the only 300Ts that I have seen that don't have anything in the third quadrant, "professional" is the same width as the SUB 300 line, the one's with the outline logo, are just barely longer, and the anchor logo actually says SUB 300 T on the dial like the "seahunter" which of course has the diver logo. Yours, and the eBay beater, both have a longer 'professional' line, his aqualung just looks like it's worn from improper cleaning, or perhaps cleaning after being flooded. *then again, it is a shitty picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Good eyes, old man. I looked long and hard at his ever so sucky photo and I'm still not convinced for a couple other reasons: the geometry of the USD sticker is wrong, being a little too large in diameter. And there's no evidence of the hand engraved numbers on the backs of the lugs. Nope.... I don't believe it's real. I think he slapped on one of those fleabay USD stickers to a SUB300 and tried to bump its value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Damn Nuqi... Now you are going to make me go look again, aren't you? I am thinking pixel-blue and averaging is leading to the spread on the dial... But now I am going to be staring at grey blobs on my little phone with my worn out eyes for a couple more hours... Thanks for that. ;^p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I am going to say the genius watchsmith that ruined the hands and had to change them out also polished the chicken scratch off. Apart from the dirt, the lugs look like a couple layers are missing, with inconsistent polishing. So, maybe it is an original with an unfortunate history. Worth a $200 gamble on the cc through ppal in the bay, to ensure you get your money back if it's a sticker. It is relisted. I would if I were in the position to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 It's worth 200 just for parts. The bezel and crown are valuable , as is the case, movement and even the dial could be refinished. I agree with nanug, that Black Lung on the dial just doesn't look right. It could be from a flood or moisture inside, but the rest of the dial has been altered as well, especially the lume. Another question, why were the hands changed? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 The crap lume, hand change and worn logo together look like water damaged and amateur repaired to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 And the missing lume dot "in the box" point to the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Nuqi, look at it from a different angle. You know more about the extant examples of this watch than anyone else... how many do you know of originating on the mid east coast? Any yet? If a couple dozen watches were sent out as samples, does this one popping up where it is make sense by filling a hole, or is it creating a cluster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Good point. I don't recall hearing of ANY being sent to the east coast. As far as I can surmise there were perhaps 15 sent out as samples. I can account for 14 of them. L'ilRed on the east coast has 3, but he brought them there. So this is strangely adding up to a "manufactured" BL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Or Doxa spread them out evenly to dealers near the coasts to maximize exposure with their minimum investment, and this is number 15. Really none to Florida? None to VA/NC tidewaters and Navy HQ country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Where did you arrive at the number 15? Not disputing just curious. Since the old Doxa records were either lost or destroyed, it seems, every time Doxa changed hands, precious little is known about the early history. According to Peter Millar's book, the Black Lungs were prototypes and didn't have serial numbers engraved on the case backs. Also if you look at the photo of Nanug's 300 and my 300T., the scales on the bezels are different. I've looked at a bunch of bezels and a whole lot more photos, and the outer scale with the 95 to the left of the 12 o'clock dot and 195 to the right are not seen on any other variants. All of the other bezels at least in the early 300's and 300T's have on the outer bezel 20 dot 60 with the no decompress table only going to 60(Which I believe is the depth in meters). or the one like mine which is 60 dot FT 190. As I said, this is for the early bezel variants, as later when they were bought out by Aubry Frères in 1978, they made a lot of changes to the watch as well as the bezels. So AFA the Ebay watch, if the serial numbers were not present, that would be in keeping with the theory of Millar that these were prototypes. If they were indeed prototypes, there is no telling what the distribution scheme would be. Since they were contracting with US Divers, I would bet that they went to a few big well established Dive shops that were the biggest sellers of US Divers equipment. I would guess that the biggest and busiest shops were probably in Florida and California. I doubt that a dive shop in the Northeast could compete with a shop in say Miami or Key Largo, San Diego or LA. US Divers must have been well satisfied with the response because they placed and initial order of 4000 watches with the US Divers logo (the regular not the black) with Doxa. OF course if someone knows that a Black lung is significantly more valuable than a conventional 300 Professional, the serial numbers could have been "worn" off and a Black decal could have been applied to the dial. I do know from looking at it, whomever tried to repair or alter the dial sure didn't have any dial refinishing skills, as the lume application is probably about as bad as I have seen, they also forgot the lume dot in the date box as well. all in all this was a poor attempt to repair the watch. All in all, the vintage Doxas are great watches, and I really like mine and wish I had kept a few more. The biggest problem is the parts are so hard to find, you hate to wear them very much, because if you break something, you may be SOL as far as getting it fixed easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 The eBay junker has the same bezel as Nuqi's gem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Or Doxa spread them out evenly to dealers near the coasts to maximize exposure with their minimum investment, and this is number 15. Really none to Florida? None to VA/NC tidewaters and Navy HQ country? Bizarre, isn't it? Or maybe my memory is going? I had a long talk with a friend many years ago who was intimately involved in the whole BL project and he talked about John Vargas being the one to hatch the idea. He had a few pieces modified with the all black USD logo and then scratched tiny reference numbers on the backs of the lugs, and his secretary wrote down where she sent them out. Here's what those tiny engravings look like: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Now were these BL's that were made up later by Vargas or were these some of the originals? Just as and aside, Vargas and I didn't get along' we had a couple of big disagreements back when he was the "so called" US Representative for Doxa. He didn't last very long as he managed to piss off almost everyone he dealt with. Also he was scamming Doxa. All that aside, I thought I posted something yesterday on this thread, but I must have hit the wrong button. It was essentially about bezels and the observation that the bezels that are on nanug's BL and the EBay watch are the same, and don't appear on any other models. When I get homeI'll look and see if the post auto saved. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 From what I recall these were the original batch Vargas had made and sent out to test the waters (and from which he held back 3 for himself). I believe you're right, the 195FT bezel is unique to the BL. Here's another that lives among us in these hallowed halls of RWG, also with the 195FT bezel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 From what I recall these were the original batch Vargas had made and sent out to test the waters (and from which he held back 3 for himself). I believe you're right, the 195FT bezel is unique to the BL. Here's another that lives among us in these hallowed halls of RWG, also with the 195FT bezel.a.JPG That is and outstanding example of the BL. So those BL's that Vargas commissioned were what? Were these regular 300' Pros that he had the decals applied to. I seriously doubt that Vargas was involved with the original Doxa 300's as that was about 53 years ago!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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