Uh-oh... George's Fake Ap Offshore Is Already On Ebay!1

[warburg]

Has anyone reported this to Ebay?

[swdivad]

Has anyone reported this to Ebay?

I have

[Omega-Reign]

Guy & Gals

Newsflash:

YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

Again,

Ultimately, the dealer's objective is not a morally sound one. As replica purchasers and enthusiasts, you have to respect the "business end" of replicas. You can't just accept buying and selling among people who would object to selling fakes as real (and for profit).

It's all or nothing.

You possibly bought from someone that you are now reporting?

C'mon.

[slay]

I highly doubt ebay will pull this auction!

[swdivad]

Guy & Gals

Newsflash:

YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

Again,

Ultimately, the dealer's objective is not a morally sound one. As replica purchasers and enthusiasts, you have to respect the "business end" of replicas. You can't just accept buying and selling among people who would object to selling fakes as real (and for profit).

It's all or nothing.

You possibly bought from someone that you are now reporting?

C'mon.

That's [censored]

We actually CAN, and DO, have it both ways... We don't in any way condone selling fakes as genuines (although there may be a few that do this here)

Maybe you don't know that many of us have both genuines and replicas.

I for one would be horrified to purchase a watch from a high positive feedback seller on eBay only to find it to be a rep.

This eBay listing is a big wake up call for everyone here and one of the main reasons we are here.

I, for one, applaud this thread for calling this guy out. I've reported it to eBay and only hope that they are able to act in time.

[fitch]

yep, this looks exactly like the pics from george and the running seconds at 9 (see the various pics on the auction) have taken away the little doubt i had..... somebody is going to loose a lot of €€€...

[watcher]

George is sending me the watch he pictured this week and I will be over the moon if it looks as good as the Ebay auction watch!!!!!!!

450 euro is for the Asian version but intend swapping her out for a swiss 7750. I think the price is reasonable considering the detail that has gone into it.

Are we all very sure about this Ebay auction??? I'm not convinced the pics are of a rep.

[thomasng]

George is sending me the watch he pictured this week and I will be over the moon if it looks as good as the Ebay auction watch!!!!!!!

450 euro is for the Asian version but intend swapping her out for a swiss 7750. I think the price is reasonable considering the detail that has gone into it.

Are we all very sure about this Ebay auction??? I'm not convinced the pics are of a rep.

Yes we are. I am so confident that I would give you my genuine piece if this was not a rep.

[Polynomial]

George is sending me the watch he pictured this week and I will be over the moon if it looks as good as the Ebay auction watch!!!!!!!

450 euro is for the Asian version but intend swapping her out for a swiss 7750. I think the price is reasonable considering the detail that has gone into it.

Are we all very sure about this Ebay auction??? I'm not convinced the pics are of a rep.

Well, you think 450 is not a lot for a crap Asian 7750, and you are not conviced the pics are of a rep? Impressive arguments...

[thomasng]

There is absolutely no freakign way he doesn't know this is fake. He seems to intentionally snap pictures head on when the 9 o'clock subdial is a "30", but in the angled ones, you clearly see the running seconds. This guy is a fraud and cheat.

[robertk]

Well, you think 450 is not a lot for a crap Asian 7750, and you are not conviced the pics are of a rep? Impressive arguments...

What's one mans Crap is another mans Gold.

[Omega-Reign]

That's [censored]

We actually CAN, and DO, have it both ways... We don't in any way condone selling fakes as genuines (although there may be a few that do this here)

Maybe you don't know that many of us have both genuines and replicas.

I for one would be horrified to purchase a watch from a high positive feedback seller on eBay only to find it to be a rep.

This eBay listing is a big wake up call for everyone here and one of the main reasons we are here.

I, for one, applaud this thread for calling this guy out. I've reported it to eBay and only hope that they are able to act in time.

Allow me to clarify,

(Nice Avatar, BTW)

To report this auction is like dining at a fine restaurant where beef is sold, lamb, and everything else, but then protest about the froi gras (because the geese are force fed) while wearing a mink coat.

To object to reps being sold as genuine is like working for Ford Motors and loving what you do (in the factory, making cars) then you ride your bike to work everyday and protest SUV's.

What you are doing is like (yeah, I have more, I'm trying to get my point across)....

Working as a marketing agent for McDonald's and Wendy's, but joining the campaign against a FAT AMERICA.

You can't have it both ways.

And OF COURSE I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS OWN REAL WATCHES honestly, that was kind of dumb.

"Maybe you don't know..." C'mon man, I would contribute to a thread like this, and not know... (That makes no sense).

Anyway,

My point is: There is no dichotomy, no half observance of the moral issue of replica watches.

They are illegal, and people get scammed.

You don't mind the legal part, but object to people getting scammed.

Either support, or don't support.

Oh, I almost forgot one:

That's like looking at porn, even child porn, but saying "I object to people trying to act out what they see" "I hate when marriages go bad because of porn" or "I hate pedophiles"

Get real, man.

You are supporting this. You don't think that the dealers goal is so noble as to not include selling fakes as real, to unsuspecting buyers, do you?

Apparently you do. You think they just sell to replica and watch aficionados and not to buyers looking for an exceptional piece (who, while able to afford 8K Euro, are not as knowledgeable as you are).

I guess you are thinking that way. There goes self deception at work.

Ω REIGN

Edited December 27, 2006 by Omega-Reign

[thomasng]

Can you move this fight to another thread? This is a very serious issue, and somebody must do something to stop this auction before somebody gets screwed over big time.

Can you move this fight to another thread? This is a very serious issue, and somebody must do something to stop this auction before somebody gets screwed over big time.

[Omega-Reign]

Can you move this fight to another thread? This is a very serious issue, and somebody must do something to stop this auction before somebody gets screwed over big time.

Can you move this fight to another thread? This is a very serious issue, and somebody must do something to stop this auction before somebody gets screwed over big time.

This is not a fight.

Someone objected to a post. I responded intelligently.

If anything, you should have objected at the use of profanity in his rebuttal.

And if it was a fight,

There are moderators and co-moderators for that sort of thing.

But, this isn't a fight. I think I made that clear if you read my posts. It's not about confrontation, but contradiction.

You can't be an arsonist and a firefighter.

Edited December 27, 2006 by Omega-Reign

[thomasng]

This is not a fight.

Someone objected to a post. I responded intelligently.

If anything, you should have objected at the use of profanity in his rebuttal.

And if it was a fight,

There are moderators and co-moderators for that sort of thing.

But, this isn't a fight. I think I made that clear if you read my posts. It's not about confrontation, but contradiction.

You can't be an arsonist and a firefighter.

Fine. I kindly request you move this debate to another thread so that the original purpose of warning people about a fake Offshore can be conducted. This philosophical debate is quite interesting nonetheless.

[Omega-Reign]

No need.

.....TPR on that issue.

BTW,

I think the seconds at 9 thing is in your head. That was scheduled to be fixed (at least by one producer) before production of the finished product. Other suggested flaws were also fixed. If you look closely, the 12-hour and 30 minute have the same slight offset of the pointer in at least one shot. Doesn't mean anything.

There are other ways to snap a photo with the seconds not running besides waiting (as one person suggested) for the seconds to hit 30 (which is actually quite silly).

And I'd be amazed if this auction is removed.

Actually,....(3 minutes later editing....)

I take that back, snapping the flick at 30 isn't silly at all. (and no insult or FIGHT intended).

It could have gone down that way. But knowing how huge the profit margin was going to be and also considering that dealers were discussing fixing this flaw (based on production and profit) it is also possible that they could have an updated version.

Either way,

I think that unless you know the potential buyer, this guy is as good as GOT.

The good thing is that his friends may not be able to call him on it. Let's hope he doesn't take it to his jeweler. That would really start something, now wouldn't it?

Ω REIGN

Edited December 27, 2006 by Omega-Reign

[Watchmeister]

Omega Reign-

If that is truly how you feel whay are you here? By being here, under your theory, you are as guilty as the guy selling fakes on Ebay. You ever smoke pot or trya recreational drug? Congratulations you are a drug dealer. I hope you will stay true to your theory and disappear since you wouldn't want to support the replica industry.

Oh yeah, it is clearly a fake and I hope David got to Ebay before it was too late.

[Omega-Reign]

I certainly have a reply (not that I wasn't anticipating that response).

However, that constitutes a debate.

Start the thread and I'll see you there. I would like to respect thomasng's wishes.

Ω REIGN

[ratchpot]

There is absolutely no freakign way he doesn't know this is fake. He seems to intentionally snap pictures head on when the 9 o'clock subdial is a "30", but in the angled ones, you clearly see the running seconds. This guy is a fraud and cheat.

There are various factors which stop me being so unequivocal about this being a straightforward case of fraud.

First, it appears that the seller is itself an auction house / liquidator so it's likely that it's a company involved, with a lot to lose if they are found to be deliberately engaging in fraudulent activity. Also, they appear to have never sold any APs before on eBay (I don't know about outside eBay). The watch is described in such an amateurish and incorrect manner that the person who did the write up probably doesn't know anything about ROOs beyond what someone told him or what he found on an internet site. It just doesn't seem right that someone would go all the way to conduct this fraud and then ruin it all with such a basic, basic error in the description that no-one who knows about ROOs would ever make.

In any event, it is absolutely correct that the auction is reported, because the watch is definitely a rep.

[Omega-Reign]

There are various factors which stop me being so unequivocal about this being a straightforward case of fraud.

First, it appears that the seller is itself an auction house / liquidator so it's likely that it's a company involved, with a lot to lose if they are found to be deliberately engaging in fraudulent activity. Also, they appear to have never sold any APs before on eBay (I don't know about outside eBay). The watch is described in such an amateurish and incorrect manner that the person who did the write up probably doesn't know anything about ROOs beyond what someone told him or what he found on an internet site. It just doesn't seem right that someone would go all the way to conduct this fraud and then ruin it all with such a basic, basic error in the description that no-one who knows about ROOs would ever make.

You may be right about that.

He says "Original AP" this and that , notes the condition of the bracelet, the listing of the case number "955".

I'm not sure what "K.A." is listed for the "Serial number" "factory serial number" "caliber" "movement serial" etc. Could it be that he didn't do a full inspection. Anyone know what K.A stands for?

He sure did put a green check next to: OFFICIAL DEALERS RECEIPT.

However,

In the auction for one of the Pateks, you can tell that this is more of his expertise:

This series began with the serial number 1119000.

Only 586 watches were produced between 1962 and 1982 with the

Caliber of 27-460 Q manufactured (on average only 30 watches/year),

of it 548 pieces (96%) in yellow gold and only 38 pieces (4%)

in white gold.

Who knows how many hands this went through or how it was handed over to them. But, it looks like a lot of details are missing, and that his knowledge of AP's is quite shallow.

And, as you said it would be detrimental to his whole eBay.de operation. Just for 10K in Euro (or about).

Doesn't add up. Not considering what he sells.

If he doesn't know he has a fake, then someone should e-mail his auction house. Chances are Ebay is not going to believe that this guy is all of a sudden selling fakes. Perhaps he wouldn't even believe what he has unless someone convincingly explained it to him. Or else, someone is down 8-10K easy.

And he may lose credibility with his clientele.

On the other hand (in harmony with my first conclusions) Someone who is so involved with fine watches in general should not be taken with something like this. AP experience or not, I just find it too awkward, the timing, and even the omission of certain details make me suspicious.

People take chances with things when they shouldn't. Perhaps he took one, risks and all.

I'm just glad that this isn't Jury Duty.

Ω Ohm

Edited December 27, 2006 by Omega-Reign

[hambone]

This is certainly one of the more interesting threads lately and thanks to Omega-Reign for a lively intelligent rebuttal to some of the opinions here. You are correct in that purchasers of reps cannot have it both ways, and I applaud your analogy. It is understandable that there will be annoyed observers who discover sellers offering reps as genuines. It goes against principles of decency to be sure, but hey, [censored] happens and it will continue to happen. I don't know that playing 'policeman' and reporting every perceived or alleged offence is the answer, but to each his own. I say buyer beware and if some clodhopper is enough of an idiot to buy a rep as a gen then he deserves the outcome.

[mikellem]

I agree. Thanks Admin!

[george]

Hi to all,

This is george and this ebay post has NOTHING TO DO WITH ME.

These pics are from the rep ( in original the subdial on 12 and 9 are closer than the one on 6, in this one are not..)and this seller is probably a scam if he selling this for original....

Please dont make conclusions or mention my name if you are not 100% sure.

You can go ahead and report this seller to ebay as a scam. No problem with me.

george

Edited December 27, 2006 by george

[fitch]

that's good to know, thanks george!

[george]

Hi,

@ moderator :

PLEASE change the topic's title.

I dont make fakes, im just a connection to some of the best...

Regards

grg