DJ1601 with 1016 bezel, need advice

[Blindpirat]

Hi Guys, Need your advice here.

 

Just got this one from ebay.. I know, that's why I'm here

 

I'm looking for 1016 bezel for more than a year as apart of my explorer project..

Pics of case bezel from listing were not too bad, looks like someone tried to make 1016 out of DJ.

Here what I got..  

 2mil serial 1601 DJ from 69, case looks a bit wrong to me, comparing to 1500 and 16000 I have..

 

The main concern 1016 Bezel here looks wider and flatter that it should be, as for me, hope I'm wrong.

But from other hand case is looking not too bad, and crystal looks like GEN.. again I could be wrong.

Desperately need your advice.

 

I'll try to attach some pictures, sorry not the best ones.

I also compared bezel wit pictures of 1016 case with bezel from internet

Also here is comparison of two cases and bezels:

on the left - 1016 (sourced form internet), on there right 1601 case with "1016 bezel"

LEGIT?

 

 

Thank you so much!

BP

Edited November 25, 2015 by Blindpirat
pictures didn't attach nicely..

[alligoat]

Yep, it looks like your bezel is too big.

I built my 1016 with a 1601 case and had Justin, jmb, turn a bezel for me and fit it to the T-22 that I got from Clarks. I was happy-very, with the results

[Blindpirat]

Thanks for reply Alligoat.

Yes It's look big, question is it fake or Gen?

Need some extensive knowledge here.

It could be for example from 14270 explorer.. I hope so

I do have Jmb bezel, even 2 of them, it's nice, close, but it's still not the same as Gen one.

It's sides look smooth, more close to DJ bezels.

Now I'm building ultimate all Gen explorer, and the last bit - correct Gen bezel, this is highly important here.

But I'm stuck, simply can't find it..

Here are pics of 1016 you can see that edges on 1016 bezel are more sharp, and angles are different.

JMB's bezel sides, at least on my two bezels more curved not straight/graphic like on Gen.

Here are some pics from internet:

And here is mine:

Thanks,

BP

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Blindpirat]

Just found this one late "L" serial from 1990

Bezel is quite wide here and glossy as hell.

But profile..

Edited November 26, 2015 by Blindpirat

[rolojack]

Trying to think...... I believe the bezel fitted on the cartel 6239 has a closer profile compared to the gen bezel. It is for a T21, so dome crysal. To be verified

[Blindpirat]

Hi mate!

Thanks for sharing, where I can get one? Is it engraved with numbers for tachometer, do I need to sand them down?

Hope to use use Gen dome T22, do have one. if it will fit.. Probably not.

But I have T21 as well, but it's service and not domed..

But what you think about crystal on this 1601?

Looks like Gen, really thick.

Cheers

Sent from Hell

[alligoat]

Trying to think...... I believe the bezel fitted on the cartel 6239 has a closer profile compared to the gen bezel. It is for a T21, so dome crysal. To be verified

That would have to be a bezel from a 6238 since the 6239 bezel had the tach numbers.

If your bezel is a gen 1016 bezel, it may be that the 1601 case is too small. The 1601 and 1016 cases are not the same and the 1601 case could have been polished, possibly too much. I'd put a dial in there and see how your watch looks. You're not going to get an all gen 1016 until you find a case and I've never seen one out there for sale. The only way to achieve perfection may be to buy a gen complete 1016. That's what LHOOQ finally did and he's the guru of the 1016. I believe he had four reps and then bought the gen. 

[Blindpirat]

That's obviously quite easy, just to buy 1016.

But then, you skip the best part.. when you struggle to find details to put all together

I'm looking for mid case and bezel(as I understand this one is not real).. No success here.. So far.

And I'm fine to wait couple more years

Now I'll have all Gen rolex with 16013 case reshaped by Great man and honored forum member what is pretty amazing.

I'm also considering as option to use bezel from 16200 in combination with Gen T21 from Daytona,

This could be good option as well.

But the main question, still unanswered.

Is bezel I got from Ebay fake?

Thank you.

Bp

Sent from Hell

[automatico]

Here is the way it is (imho)...since the case has already been bored for oversize 1016 spring bars, the case has been killed as far as being used for a genuine DJ. So...you need the proper bezel and crystal. For a low profile 1601/1016 project case you probably need a lower profile bezel so it will not look like someone dropped a silver dollar down on it. The thicker bezel may be Ok spec wise but it just does not look right.

The 16xx, 16000, 16200, and 1016 cases all have the same size case neck so a T22 spec crystal will work. The catch is you need a bezel that fits the T22 crystal after it has been mounted on the case and most of these projects simply do not work with a ready made bezel without swapping crystals around. Catch...bezel/crystal fitting usually needs an experienced watch fiddler (usually with a lathe) to make it work. Fact of life.

What to do? Buy a JMB case assembly complete but it's too late for that...so maybe lower the profile of the bezel by sanding it down on a sheet of flat metal, glass etc. You might have to try 2 or 3 different brands of crystals to find one that fits properly and it's a good idea to start with a GS PA464-64C because they are very close to genuine. I would not waste $$ on a genuine crystal.

Something else...there is no way in the world to tell if the bezel you bought is genuine or fake. Why? Because any competent machinist can take a $15 ST bezel and after an hour on the lathe, no one can tell the difference. Sad but true. That's why it would have been better to buy a JMB case complete and go from there.

Q...Am I talking out my azz?  A...usually, but not this time. I have put a few dozen of these projects together and presently have a '1016' with Eta 2846, genuine 16220 case, GS PA464-64C, machined ST bezel etc and it looks fine with the too thick case and bezel...sorta like a newer model. Otoh I have a JMB case set and it looks better to me, like an older model.

This should make you feel better...a 1016 project is a lot easier than a 5513 or 1680 project because they have more bezel parts that won't fit, expen$ive crown parts, and the 1680 has a date that never lines up. I have done a few of them too.

Good luck!  

[Blindpirat]

Thanks for interesting info automatico!

This case (1601) I purchased to use only as bezel source.

I believed Gen 1016 bezel installed on that thick domed T22.

I wouldn't use this case.

I'm currently have one 1016 project done:

16000 dj with clarks crystal(was unable to get GS), JMB bezel, Gen 1570 movement, Gen bracelet.

The next step for me is, 1016 which I'm currently building:

16013 case which will be reshaped by Rolojack.

Gen 1570 movement.

Gen Sigma dial

Gen 1016 hands(with correct length minute hand!)

Gen NOS Domed t22 crystal.

Gen 78360 bracelet.

Already have all this things.

I also purchased 1016 caseback, to fit 1016 midcase when I will find it.. Maybe in next couple of years. this is the long term project..

Problem that JMB case is really good for franken case but it's different from Gen even Hue of metal is different, comparing to Gens I have 1500(head only), 15200 with 78350 bracelet and my 16000 Dj case with 78360 bracelet.

Also JMB bezel is great, but it's geometry is different to Gen, sides are more curved/smooth like in DJ bezels.

In 1016 bezels profile is sharp you can see comparison I made above.

1016 bezel is enchanting whole look of the 1016 explorer, and currently no 100% replace option here.

The only think I try to understand, is bezel on 1601 case I purchased is Fake or not, and as I understand no one can say that for sure.

Looks like I'll keep hunting for real one on VRF..

Thank you all for help!

Sent from Hell

[rolojack]

Sorry, 6238 of course. Anyways, these cartel vintage style chronos are a bit confusing as the mid case is for a screwdown pusher model and overall they mixed up different models together. Those with a smooth bezel have a profile similar to what you show above: featuring a high waist line.

[Blindpirat]

Thank you!

Sounds like a plan!

Do you have any idea where I could source one?

Cheers

Sent from Hell

[automatico]

I did not know you were going to use a genuine movement/dial so I guess you should go with genuine parts if possible. The 16013 case is close but the 3035 is thicker above the stem center line than a 1570 no date with a 1016 dial so the stem will be too high in the case tube...same problem you run into with no date 15xx movements in MBK cases. A no date 1570 with 1016 dial is a drop in fit in a 16200 case and this is why I used the 16220 in my first go round when I first used a 1570 In it...later I put a 2846 in it. Next time I would use a JMB case when going with an Eta or something similar and a replica dial.

A 1570/75 date movement and flat dial with the proper od will fit in a 15000/16000 case but not a 15200/16200 case. A 1520/70 no date with the proper od dial will fit into a 15200/16200 case.

I have a nos 1570 and nos 1016 dial/hands/crown etc but no luck finding a like new case in 10+ years. After this long I would go with an aftmkt case if there was a super good one available but am gun shy because with replica parts you can always get some unpleasant surprises and I have seen no feedback on any of them. May have to go with a Yuki case just so I can put all the parts together but I do not know anyone who has used a Yuki 1016 case so I am a little bit scared of them and Phong is too much $$ for a 'road test' case. I do not mind 5513, 1680 with out of spec cases because they all are out of spec so I just go with MBK or Yuki.

Nothing is easy.   

[Blindpirat]

Hi Automatico!

Thank you for reply!

Yes, I do have now in my current 1016 build made of 16013 case, 1575 movement installed, all good.

That's why I chose 16000 series for my next build.

Yes, it's really hard to find 1016 midcase, I'm currently purchasing(waiting for seller to respond me) 1016 caseback.. Just in case..

I saw one 1016 midcase in last 3 years, complety ruined, rotten and jammed like it trapped under train, for 1000 euro..

Maybe i should go for it and do laser welding.. Sounds mental

Sent from Hell