Not happy with my watchmaker at all!!!!

[horologist]

I had a basic gen eta replica submariner serviced in 2014 by a watchmaker that did not have a problem with working on it after I had given him plenty of warning that  it was a rep with a DWO.  I also printed off the information on  https://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/144733-Removing-a-date-wheel-without-disturbing-the-overlay so that he wouldn't  stuff it up and said to me that he would use his watchmaking skills to get around it.

received the watch and was happy with what he did!!!! Horray!!!!

A few weeks ago I purchased a seadweller from a forum member that honestly declared it the way it was and in need of a service.  No problems at all as he is a gentleman!!!   It has  a BK DWO and looks nice.  Nothing special but it is a good beater.  Took it into the same watchmaker who I was happy with my last service and I explained the situation.  No worries he said!!!  

This morning I received a call from him and advised me that he cannot guarantee me that the date could be seen properly if he goes ahead with the service as the date wheel has been bastardised to be different and will need to replace it with a normal date wheel.  I then asked him how he serviced my last one and he replied that he worked from underneath without taking the date wheel out.  With this other one it may have a damaged set lever or yoke and the date wheel needs to come out as it has serious keyless works problems which I did not recall upon receiving the watch. I almost fainted when I heard this.  I reminded him of the printed information that I had given him the previous year.  He said that it was unprofessional of using backyard  lay men's tactics instead of what a professional watchmaker is trained to do.

worse still is that he has already removed my dial and several parts from it and said that if he is not going to go ahead with his terms, he is retuning me the watch in pieces as is.  My question would be to members of this forum, is if this is what one expects from what a professional watchmaker is trained to do-especially after I had put my position clear with him which I feel almost blackmailed in what I tried to avoid in the first place???  Very disappointing to say the least

[Rolexman]

Working on reps also requires a specific skill set most 'regular' watchmakers don't have. But make no mistake! Working on reps is problematic and challenging. You can't turn a lime into a melon and sometimes parts that fit together at one point won't anymore the next time. That's the risk when you take apart a rep. Please do adjust your expectations when you send out reps for repair. It is not as risk free and straightforward as genuines, no matter how skill full the watchmaker is.

Mark

[GenTLe]

Well... Servicing a movement without doing the "front part" because he didn't want to remove the dw was unprofessional on the 1st he did. That's not the way to do that job...

And I agree that putting back the date disk spring on a watch with a wide dwo is not a easy thing, but if I did it many times, not damaging it and being just a "tinkerer" I can't get that a professional cannot just do it...

By the way I don't use the way explained by the thread you reference.

I prefer to unscrew the date spring plate and take away all in a proper way.

The difficulty part is putting those 2 parts back fitting them properly below the dwo. But again: it IS feasible, with some patience.

[horologist]

Rolexman and genTle,  thank you for your comments.  I appreciate both your point of view.  Much appreciated!!!!  

I do not disagree with you Rolexman.  The only modification on my replica is that  glued  dwo which otherwise is a fairly standard watch without any fancy modding. As genTle implied, a bit of  intuition is what one expects from a professional.  In my trade we also do not stick to the script and improvise when the non text book style problem occurs.

However, the moral to the subject is that I just wished he had been as open and clear as I had with him crossing every t and dotting every i.  

As as you said genTle, if you claim to be just a tinkler and this guy is a professional with training and many years of experience who cannot do what you are able to do makes me wonder.  You were right in saying that not removing the date wheel on my first watch was not professional either.  Still charging me for a full service would make me want to take this watch back without a service even if it is now in 10 pieces.  I would wonder what he would really do if had no issue with the keyless works!!!  Thought I had found someone local to work on it rather than to send away.  A lesson learnt!!!

[automatico]

"With this other one it may have a damaged set lever or yoke and the date wheel needs to come out as it has serious keyless works problems which I did not recall upon receiving the watch."

Sounds like the set lever was simply shoved out of place by stuffing the stem into the movement when in winding position. "Serious keyless works problems"  is always a good excuse. It is hard to break anything in the 28xx etas.

 

Anyone who claims to be an 'experienced' watch repair guy and can not get a date wheel with dw overlay off and on an Eta 2836 without damage needs to park his screwdrivers. The problem is usually the dw overlay being loose to start with and coming off either before or after the watch was worked on. This is usually not the fault of the repair guy. 

The trouble spot...you have to be very careful because the screw under the edge of the dw overlay that holds the thin silver colored plate to the movement can jack the dw overlay up off the date wheel or bend the overlay when removing it...this is with 9mm off center dw overlays. The screw that holds this plate down has a large diameter skirt on it so a smaller diameter screw head might help. Normal 10mm offset dw do not have this problem.

 

"being just a "tinkerer" I can't get that a professional cannot just do it..."

You would be surprised at the 'pros' who can not or will not do this type of work. I started out working on junk and it prepared me for this type of 'jaybird engineering'.  Ha!  

Btw...I still work on a lot of junk.

[horologist]

22 hours ago, automatico said:

"With this other one it may have a damaged set lever or yoke and the date wheel needs to come out as it has serious keyless works problems which I did not recall upon receiving the watch."

Sounds like the set lever was simply shoved out of place by stuffing the stem into the movement when in winding position. "Serious keyless works problems"  is always a good excuse. It is hard to break anything in the 28xx etas

Only confirms my original suspicion.  The worst I ever recall happening  on a norther exact mechanism is a damaged stem

22 hours ago, automatico said:

Anyone who claims to be an 'experienced' watch repair guy and can not get a date wheel with dw overlay off and on an Eta 2836 without damage needs to park his screwdrivers. 

There wouldn't be any watch repairers left in my country even to change batteries.  It wouldn't stop just with the watch industry but also with many other shonks that are licensed to scam us that are classed as tradesmen here.

 

22 hours ago, automatico said:

"I started out working on junk and it prepared me for this type of 'jaybird engineering'.  Ha!  

Btw...I still work on a lot of junk.

In my Town it is the other way around - they turn quality working products into junk very easily!

 

On 6 February 2016 at 5:03 AM, Rolexman said:

That's the risk when you take apart a rep. Please do adjust your expectations when you send out reps for repair. It is not as risk free and straightforward as genuines, no matter how skill full the watchmaker is

One of the reasons I only invested into a replica from the mainstream collectors such as sillix etc.

i was changing a crown tube for someone that had a jackjo DSV2 and I could not fit in any of the typical case clamps that would fit into the mainstream cases including the case clamps that came with the eta movement from ofrei.  No matter what I did, the movement just kept circling in the case.  I ended up making one from a battery holder from a junk quartz watch after fiddling and filing for almost 3 days.  

 

[GenTLe]

It is hard to break anything in the 28xx etas.

But it happens.

Last AP I fixed (a2824) had a part of the keyless completely gone. Luckily the gen part fit perfectly

[SSTEEL]

Reading what the op has said, and found myself shaking my head, sounds like your watchmaker is not as hybrid a repairer as us rep experts.

[unreformed66]

I've been repairing watches for the last 26 years. I'm pretty new to the rep game. That being said, I haven't had any trouble yet with anything I've run into. I've shaken my head and cursed a little sometimes at some of the stupid things I've found but nothing has been insurmountable yet. Yes, you have to pay attention and think about what you're doing because there ARE differences. I wonder if the problem today is that so many of the modern "watchmakers" are only trained to do a select set of movements and aren't willing to do anything else. I've worked on everything from 200 year old verge fusees to repeaters in the last quarter of a century and was trained the old fashioned way to PAY ATTENTION and not take anything for granted. Sometimes more than a little analysis is involved in figuring out how something odd comes apart but again, it's nothing any repairman who's willing to take the time shouldn't be able to do. Let's face it, these things are being put together by slave-wage laborers in a communist country. If they can do it with little to no training then anybody calling themselves a watchmaker should be able to.