Re-setting keyless works on A2836

[richard591]

I would appreciate some help on this one from the experts.

I've just picked up another spare A2836 from a friend. Unfortunately, the winder won't re-engage as the release button seems to have been pushed in a little too enthusiastically, therefore looks like the keyless works need to be re-set. Is there a tutorial previously posted that anyone can direct me to and which gives a blow by blow sequence for doing this?

I'm used to dismantling various parts on this movement to swap movements/ datewheels/face and hands etc over and have the usual precision set of srewdrivers and 10x mag headset etc. Any guidance would be much appreciated, otherwise it looks like sending it back to my very reliable watchmaker friend who is happy to work on these rep movements.

Richard

[mymanmatt]

The usual problem is the YOKE. When the set lever is pushed up to far, it lets the YOKE slip out of the CLUTCH and then nothing works. If you've never been in the keyless before, it will seem complicated, but it's not.  Be sure and perform these steps with the stem in the watch.   Here we go step by step by step.       1  the movement is facing you and that means the stem is on your right.          2  you see the silver plate over the keyless works and it has 1 screw holding it at the top.   remove the screw. The plate will come off.  Here is what you will see.  A very small gear next to the larger brass gear. The piece that tiny gear sits on is called the YOKE CORRECTOR. It moves up and down when you pull or push the stem.  Next to that tiny gear you will see a thin long metal piece attached to a dowel pin at the top. That is the YOKE.  Beneath the YOKE is another tiny gear with a slot in it, laying in a groove, that is the CLUTCH. It also moves in and out with the stem. To the right you will see what's called the SET LEVER. It's the largest single piece of the keyless. When you push the small pin on the back side of the movement to release the stem, that's is the piece your are pushing. Are you still with me?               3 remove the YOKE from the dowel pin. It has to come straight up.              4  reinstall the YOKE into the small slot of the CLUTCH and put the YOKE back over the dowel pin.        5 be sure to check that the SET LEVER is in the YOKE CORRECTOR. It will sit flush on top of the YOKE CORRECTOR when it's in place.            6  when you feel certain everything is in place, reinstall the large silver plate that you removed to access the keyless.   7  start the screw but do not tighten it yet. At the bottom of that piece you will see some notches. On the SET LEVER you will see a pin. Push the notches to the side of that pin. It will have a small amount of tension.             8 at the top by the screw, to the right you will see a thin piece of metal. Below it you will see the top of the YOKE. Push that piece of metal to the right so it pops to side of the YOKE.         9 Tighten the screw.   You have now repaired your keyless works.  I hope I haven't made this to difficult to understand. Good luck to you.

[mrsoundman]

I had a similar problem when I was cutting my first ETA 2824 Stem to length for a new build.  I incorrectly figured that cutting the stem a little longer was not going to be an issue...  When I screwed in the crown, the yoke slipped over the sliding pinion and the winder was stuck in the calendar position.  I found the following video extremely useful.  I believe it visually explains Matt's description correctly:

 

[richard591]

Thanks for your time in typing that out Matt. Very much appreciated.

Your instructions all seem quite logical and clear, so will do what you have detailed in the next idle moment I can find.

One final question on removing the winder stem. I usually pull the winder right out to time set position, then move the hands back and forth a few times to make sure everything is engaged/locked properly. Only then do I remove the stem by putting a slight pull pressure on it while at the same time just pressing the release button ever so gently until the winder just pulls free, then immediately take the pressure off the release button. This was what I was always told to do by a watchmaker who worked on these movements (ETA)

Over several movement swap overs this method has not failed so far, but do you consider it the best? I have read of others doing it differently.

 

Regards

 

Richard

Thanks also for that video. Very clear and helpful indeed.

[mymanmatt]

Yes, the way you are removing the stem is correct. Sometimes, just the slightest amount of of to much pressure will push the set lever out of the yoke corrector. Then when you push the stem in, it will let the yoke slip out of the clutch.

[Nanuq]

That was a GREAT explanation, MMM. Thanks for that.

[richard591]

Thanks also for that video. Very clear and helpful indeed.

Once again, thanks for the comments. You never fail to come up with good advice. Much appreciated.

[richard591]

Update on MMM's instructions. By the way, the video from mrsoundman shows a different method of accessing the keyless from the back by removing the balance weight and various bridge works. I used MMM's version, which is from the front of the movement with the whole thing lying on its back.

 

So, that all went pretty much as described, and the winder stem is now back and engaged. However, there is one more problem.

Pulling the stem out I have date set position and hand set position as normal and in either position I can see the correct parts moving when the winder is rotated. However, in hand set position it should stop the movement by one of the components acting as a brake on the balance wheel mechanism. It doesn't and the balance wheel still rotates as normal. Everything else on the keyless seems to be moving correctly when the winder is pulled out, but I may be wrong on that.

 

Any ideas and have I still not got the keyless right? Or is this another separate problem?

 

[SSTEEL]

You may of bent the brake lever, you can access this from the rear where its positioned.

[richard591]

Thanks for that SSTEEL.

Since the original problem described was the winder stem not going back in, I'm assuming that the previous owner may have tried to put too much pressure on it to try to force it in. I also assume, therefore, that this may have bent the brake lever in the process?

If I remember correctly the lever is accessed via the removal of the winder weight, then the barrel bridge. Any other tips I should know about if that's correct?

[SSTEEL]

Please, call me, Micky

 

Thats right, rotor (oscillating weight) then auto wind bridge, then remember the screw over the rear of the keyless work is opposite threaded to a normal screw, meaning you have to screw clockwise to remove.  Obviously remember to remove the screw that screws into the main spring barrel.  Use something like a toothpick to put a little pressure on the gold wheel whilst you unscrew this screw as sometimes depending on how old the movement is, the screw will unscrew with park or the barrel.

 

There are thee small silver screws holding that bridge in place.

 

This screw...

 

DSC02539___S_STEEL___Flickr by S STEEL, on Flickr

 

Actually ignore me, you don't need to remove that reverse screw at all, you can leave it in place, just remove the screw over the main spring barrel, and then those three tiny silver screws.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by SSTEEL

[richard591]

Many thanks Micky, much appreciated.

Looks like another dull afternoon for me trying to stop small screws flying all over the place again.

Two years ago I couldn't have told you the difference between a keyless works component and a banana. Now they're rapidly becoming my new best friends!!

[mymanmatt]

Towards the end of the video you see him install the stop lever. It's a brass L shaped piece. The long side stops the balance when you pull the stem out. The short side sits in the clutch, or sliding pinion. The yoke sits on top of the clutch, the stop lever sits in the side of the clutch.

[richard591]

Again, thanks for that. I suspect that with all the disruption to the keyless components during the re-assembly the stop lever has probably come out of the slot in the sliding pinion and that's most likely what I will see when its all uncovered. Will post that when I know for sure.

 

One final comment/observation on your instructions for re-assembly of the keyless is step 8, which may be confusing to some. I see about 105 people have looked at this, so some may be considering the same thing at some point..

I think you are referring to the "hairpin" shaped extension at the top, which acts as a spring on the lever, putting it under pressure. Unless this is engaged properly, the sliding pinion does not engage properly for winding. Yes I made that mistake first. The following photos were dragged up from a previous post in 2011 on the same subject (my winder doesn't work) and show the lever, then the spring arm incorrectly positioned and laying over the lever, then correctly installed as in step 8 and laying to the side.

•  

Keyless yoke.docx

[richard591]

So, that's all done now. As I suspected, the messing about with the keyless works levers and the sliding pinion had dislodged the brake lever from its slot on the other side of the pinion (which I hadn't spotted) and that was the reason the movement kept going with the winder in the hands set position. After removing the Auto wind and barrel bridges and re-positioning the lever all is now back to normal once more.

Once again thanks to everyone for their contribution. Much appreciated.

[SSTEEL]

Glad to hear you finally got it sorted, well done