Rolex cal. 1570 to 1520 ?

[highoeyazmuhudee]

How easy is it to convert a Rolex cal. 1570 with date parts (from an oyster perpetual) for use as a 5513 cal 1520 movement?

 

Am I correct in thinking just remove the date mech parts and change the engraved 1570 bridge to 1520 (if you really want consistency) and you're good to go... or are there differences in cal. measurements that make this untenable?

 

I think hand sizes and dial feet holes are the same...

I think the balance wheel is slightly different though (inclusion of weights) but the beat is the same.

[TickleShoes]

Why would you want to downgrade a 1570 to a 1520? It’s an inferior movement technology wise. But yes, it can be done by swapping the appropriate parts.

[automatico]

"Why would you want to downgrade a 1570 to a 1520?"

 

Pretty good question.

For me...I did not have a spare 1520 so I went for a '5512' project with a 1570 rather than a '5513' project with a 1520.   

 

"How easy is it to convert a Rolex cal. 1570 with date parts (from an oyster perpetual) for use as a 5513 cal 1520 movement? "

 

Complete no date 1570 and 1520 movements are interchangeable. 

They are basically the same except for escapements.  The 1520 has a flat hairspring and the 1570 has a Breguet overcoil HS.  They are easy to tell apart after the differences have been pointed out so a 1570 in a 5513/AK etc would stick out if anyone was looking closely.

 

Converting a 1570/75 date movement to a no date to use in place of a 1520...remove all date parts and calendar spacer.  Install 1520 center wheel with canon pinion and hour wheel (lowers hands).

Casing dimensions are different for 15xx date and no date movements...no date movements have stems closer to the front of the watch because of no date works.  Mainplates etc are the same size, the calendar parts and calendar spacer make the difference and this is why the center wheel, CP, and hour wheel are different.  The sweep second pinion is the same for them all, the difference is in the second hand tube.

Btw...a no hack 15xx movement can not be readily converted to a hacking movement.  There is a groove machined in the hack movement mainplate for the hack lever.  A hacking movement can be converted to a no hack movement by removing the hack parts.

[horologist]

9 minutes ago, automatico said:

"Why would you want to downgrade a 1570 to a 1520?"

 

Pretty good question.

For me...I did not have a spare 1520 so I went for a '5512' project with a 1570 rather than a '5513' project with a 1520.   

 

"How easy is it to convert a Rolex cal. 1570 with date parts (from an oyster perpetual) for use as a 5513 cal 1520 movement? "

 

Complete no date 1570 and 1520 movements are interchangeable. 

They are basically the same except for escapements.  The 1520 has a flat hairspring and the 1570 has a Breguet overcoil HS.  They are easy to tell apart after the differences have been pointed out so a 1570 in a 5513/AK etc would stick out if anyone was looking closely.

 

Converting a 1570/75 date movement to a no date to use in place of a 1520...remove all date parts and calendar spacer.  Install 1520 center wheel with canon pinion and hour wheel (lowers hands).

Casing dimensions are different for 15xx date and no date movements...no date movements have stems closer to the front of the watch because of no date works.  Mainplates etc are the same size, the calendar parts and calendar spacer make the difference and this is why the center wheel, CP, and hour wheel are different.  The sweep second pinion is the same for them all, the difference is in the second hand tube.

Btw...a no hack 15xx movement can not be readily converted to a hacking movement.  There is a groove machined in the hack movement mainplate for the hack lever.  A hacking movement can be converted to a no hack movement by removing the hack parts.

Great explanation!!!!   Any watchmaking student learning the typical "classical music style" course would never get this from watchmaking school and this sort of information would cost $$$$$$$$$$ ( not mentioning time) from trying it out themselves from pulling all these movements apart.

[highoeyazmuhudee]

17 hours ago, automatico said:

"Why would you want to downgrade a 1570 to a 1520?"

 

Pretty good question.

For me...I did not have a spare 1520 so I went for a '5512' project with a 1570 rather than a '5513' project with a 1520.   

 

"How easy is it to convert a Rolex cal. 1570 with date parts (from an oyster perpetual) for use as a 5513 cal 1520 movement? "

 

Complete no date 1570 and 1520 movements are interchangeable. 

They are basically the same except for escapements.  The 1520 has a flat hairspring and the 1570 has a Breguet overcoil HS.  They are easy to tell apart after the differences have been pointed out so a 1570 in a 5513/AK etc would stick out if anyone was looking closely.

 

Converting a 1570/75 date movement to a no date to use in place of a 1520...remove all date parts and calendar spacer.  Install 1520 center wheel with canon pinion and hour wheel (lowers hands).

Casing dimensions are different for 15xx date and no date movements...no date movements have stems closer to the front of the watch because of no date works.  Mainplates etc are the same size, the calendar parts and calendar spacer make the difference and this is why the center wheel, CP, and hour wheel are different.  The sweep second pinion is the same for them all, the difference is in the second hand tube.

Btw...a no hack 15xx movement can not be readily converted to a hacking movement.  There is a groove machined in the hack movement mainplate for the hack lever.  A hacking movement can be converted to a no hack movement by removing the hack parts.

Thanks so much for the info.

 

I seem to find 1570 date movements for sale quite readily and for less than 1520's

I have all the parts required to build a franken 5513 but still shopping for the correct movement.

You've pointed out some differences in the 1570 date movement that might be more trouble than it's worth to convert for use in a no date 5513 case.

 

so the answer is either a 1520 or a 1570 that came from a no date watch in the first place as being the best fit for use in a 5513?

[automatico]

"You've pointed out some differences in the 1570 date movement that might be more trouble than it's worth to convert for use in a no date 5513 case."

 

The center wheel with CP is available in generic form and they seem to be as good as genuine from what I have seen and heard.

Q...What's the catch?

A...They are made for date movements only afaik.  Never saw a set for a no date movement.

 

Otoh there is not much difference in the hand mounting parts in date and no date movements so the hands may not really be far enough from the dial to bother anyone.  You could mount a dial and hour hand on a date movement minus the date parts and spacer and see how it looks. 

Date hour wheel is 1.8mm high.

No date hour wheel is 1.27mm high.

About the same difference for CPs.

Only half a mm +/-.

My guess is no one would notice it.

You will need to use a sweep second hand for a date movement but most aftmkt ss hands are for date movements anyway.

 

 

"...so the answer is either a 1520 or a 1570 that came from a no date watch in the first place as being the best fit for use in a 5513?"

 

Yes, as long as you are using a genspec case and want it to look totally genuine. 

An MBK '5513' case for example needs a date spec rlx 15xx movement because it is machined for a rlx date movement or ETA 2836. 

More of less the same story with the old DW cases.  The difference between MBK and DW cases is MBK dial windows are made for 26.0mm dials and DW cases were made for 26.5mm dials.  Both were made for 15xx date movements or ETA 2836. 

 

 

Tips:

The dial feet on a genspec date dial are longer than on a no date dial.  Make sure they do not hit anything.

Had a Yuki date dial with short no date type dial feet and the dial foot screws barely hit the dial feet.  The case clamps/screws will hold the dial down after full assembly but the dial may fall down against the hands while handling the movement and scratch the dial.  

Some aftmkt dial feet are too big in diameter and can be hard to push down into the mainplate and may put a bump in the dial.  Sand them down if too big.

After mounting a dial on a movement, pull up on the hour wheel lightly with tweezers and see if the hour wheel can rise up far enough to get out of mesh.  If it can, put a dial washer between the dial and hour wheel...up side of the bends facing the dial.  ETA 28xx date movements have a plate that holds the wheel down.

 

Dial washers...  eBay item number  273430988395

Dials, dials = details, details.    

[jmb]

2836 has the plate while the 2824 uses a wavy washer...

[automatico]

"2836 has the plate while the 2824 uses a wavy washer..."

 

I'm gonna have to shut up and look at a 2824. 

First, I was wrong about the date wheel, now this. 

Wait a minute!  I used a dial washer on the 2824/2836 combo movement in the '1016' case I got from you.

Does that count as a right answer? 

 

 

Wife:  You think you are right all the time?

Husband:  No Darlin', not all the time.

Wife:  Ok Mr. Know-it-all, let me hear you admit to being wrong.

Husband:  Well...one time I thought I was wrong but it turned out I was right.

[jmb]

Maybe?