1016, end of the journey (?)

[Drummania]

You don't have to get it from MQ or Phong. Above someone mentioned Ruby. I checked with her last year for this particular case. She quoted me $620.

[automatico]

"Above someone mentioned Ruby. I checked with her last year for this particular case. She quoted me $620."

 

Thanks!

That is not too bad considering some ask almost twice as much.  After I clear up a few projects this may be the next one.

[Lo']

Yeah, not sure anyone tried ruby's 1016 case. 
 
JMB's case is good on frontal and side profile, but I feel the 16200 case back is too thick and sits high on the wrist. 16200 case is designed for sapphire crystal. While plexi fits it adds to the thickness.

Yes, Jmb's caseback is definitely too thick but, I suppose, there's nothing J can do about it as this is the one part of the case that cannot be shaved down.

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[Lo']

Auto:
I have been buying at TDs twice during my stay among the good people at RWG. I got burned both times: First attempt was my fault. I was a noob, did not look closely enough at the QC pictures and ended getting something which was not what I thought I had ordered. Second attempt resulted in a DOA piece. Lesson learned: Never buy Chinese stuff.

For what is about your approach to work I fail to see what's wrong with it. You evidently are a very prudent person which thinks before acting. I wish I was like you, therefore less impulsive and careless...

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[automatico]

Lo'

 

Thanks for the compliment!

I got the Omega 752 running today but have not put the date works or dial on it yet and I need to stick the peeling clearcoat down somehow.  In reality it is a $200/250 watch after all the work but I do not want to quit on it.  After it is finished I have a tonneau shaped gold cap Omega Constellation to c/o while Omegas are on my mind.  Next is a 14k Rado automatic and an old military Bulova with a 10AK, then some of the rolex projects.

After I knock a few out I will try to start looking for a high quality '1016' case.

 

Next Eta '1016' project...

I have a 36mm 'tooter' case that I got from JMB a few years ago and it is close to the profile of a 1016.  There is always a catch or two...the case will only accept a 2824 because of the stem location and low profile case back, the dial needs to be about 1mm larger than oem because the dial seat is 28.9mm and the opening is 28.0mm etc, etc. (I also have a 34mm 'toot' case and it is made the same way...for a 2824 or you could go with a 2801 manual wind.  I doubt I would go to the trouble to put a 2824/2846 combo movement together just to lower the beat rate.)

 

The fix is a 28.9/29.0mm'1016' dial from Raffles and I'll need to stick another 2824/2846 combo movement together for it.  I am guessing the ID of the dial seat will need to be cut about .1mm so the dial will go all the way down but this should be Ok because the threads and the rest of the inside of the case is a little bit bigger than 29.0mm so the dial will go into the case except for maybe the dial seat.  The case also has a groove cut in it for case clamps.  Raff gives two sizes for the dial...28.9mm and 29.0mm but I have not measured it yet.

The lugs have holes drilled all the way through and they are centered in the lugs so they can be drilled out to 1.25/1.3mm.  The case neck is the same size as a 1016 but the bezel ID will need to be enlarged for a T22 crystal.  The case back has a lower profile than the JMB '1016' case (16200 replica base) that I have. 

I'll post how it goes but it will be a while.

[Drummania]

My 1016 with 16014 case, yuki dial and JMB bezel



The 16200 case is much taller. Here is my 114270 Franken






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[jmb]

On 2/5/2019 at 4:16 AM, Lo' said:

Yes, Jmb's caseback is definitely too thick but, I suppose, there's nothing J can do about it as this is the one part of the case that cannot be shaved down.

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Yeah, not much can be done as it is so thin.  About all I can do is slightly reshape kinda like a bubble back but the height stays the same.

[JSebWC]

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[Lo']

This is a very good looking piece. What are the specs for that?

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[automatico]

Update on:

"Next Eta '1016' project...

I have a 36mm 'tooter' case that I got from JMB a few years ago and it is close to the profile of a 1016.  There is always a catch or two...the case will only accept a 2824 because of the stem location and low profile case back, the dial needs to be about 1mm larger than oem because the dial seat is 28.9mm and the opening is 28.0mm etc, etc. (I also have a 34mm 'toot' case and it is made the same way...for a 2824 or you could go with a 2801 manual wind.  I doubt I would go to the trouble to put a 2824/2846 combo movement together just to lower the beat rate.)

The fix is a 28.9/29.0mm'1016' dial from Raffles and I'll need to stick another 2824/2846 combo movement together for it.  I am guessing the ID of the dial seat will need to be cut about .1mm so the dial will go all the way down but this should be Ok because the threads and the rest of the inside of the case is a little bit bigger than 29.0mm so the dial will go into the case except for maybe the dial seat.  The case also has a groove cut in it for case clamps.  Raff gives two sizes for the dial...28.9mm and 29.0mm but I have not measured it yet.

The lugs have holes drilled all the way through and they are centered in the lugs so they can be drilled out to 1.25/1.3mm.  The case neck is the same size as a 1016 but the bezel ID will need to be enlarged for a T22 crystal.  The case back has a lower profile than the JMB '1016' case (16200 replica base) that I have."

 

Got the dial and it measures 28.5mm.  Raff website says:  "Vintage Explorer Dial Marked Rolex Symbol for DG ETA MIYOTA Dial 29mm".  Maybe .5mm does not sound like much but it can be the difference between the dial working in the case or not.  Since the dial opening in the case is 28mm (27.97 - 28.03mm) the dial just barely hangs inside the case.  A spacer would need to be made with almost no clearance between the movement and case so the dial would remain centered...another hassle.  Otoh the dial looks very good.

So...No Go.  For now.  

[JSebWC]

6 hours ago, Lo' said:

This is a very good looking piece. What are the specs for that?

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Thank you  Its the standard recipe 

JMB ver 2 case with engravings.
yuki dial and hands - mk5 dial 
clarks T22 crystal
rep crown from jmb
2mm spring bars
580 end links 
cartel folded link oyster

[manodeoro]

Yes, Jmb's caseback is definitely too thick but, I suppose, there's nothing J can do about it as this is the one part of the case that cannot be shaved down.

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You CAN shave down a caseback.
I did that on my Daytona and slimmed it down about 2 mm (1.5 at the least).
And redoing the brushed part is easily doable with 320 sandpaper.
The only problem is you will change the profile of the caseback (increase the diameter of the flat part).

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[jmb]

9 hours ago, automatico said:

 

I have a 36mm 'tooter' case that I got from JMB a few years ago...

Was that for a Date-Day?  They do have a pretty flat back on them...

[automatico]

"You CAN shave down a caseback.  I did that on my Daytona and slimmed it down about 2 mm (1.5 at the least)."

 

For my JMB 'toot' case/Raff dial '1016' project, I dug out two Monarch Polfy case backs and one has a lower profile than usual and fits the toot case.  I will have to cut the OD down a little bit where it contacts the case back gasket though. I do not know yet if the project will need a 2824/2846 combo movement or not.  If it is a DD case it might have been made for a 2834 to begin with so a 2836 with 2846 running gear may work instead of a 2824 with 2846 running gear.  I will probably go with the thinner Monarch Polfy case back. 

One Monarch Polfy case back is 4.15mm thick overall (counting threads) and the other is 4.6mm thick overall.  The toot flat back is only 3.3mm thick overall but it is the wrong profile for a rlx type case.

Btw, I measured the thickness of the Monarch Polfy case backs...one is .9mm thick in the center and the other is .7mm thick, not much room for thinning them down.  The reptoot case back is .9mm thick and a genuine 16000 case back is .9mm thick.

 

"Was that for a Date-Day?  They do have a pretty flat back on them..."

 

It should/could be a DD case and the case back has a large flat area, quite a bit different from a rlx.  It has reference number 75033 on the case but a DD of this type was a 76200, could not find a 75033...it does have 76200 inside the flat toot case back though.  Being a DD it should have had a 2834 (clone?) to begin with so a 2836 base movement may work.  I'll know more as it progresses but I have a few projects ahead of it. 

I will post what I find out on this thread.

 

With a tight fitting movement spacer to keep the dial centered it should make a very good '1016'.

Time will tell. 

[jmb]

I've built one Day-Date from the rep case and the 2834 with plastic spacer for day wheel fit perfectly.

6 hours ago, manodeoro said:

You CAN shave down a caseback.
 

I mill down Sub case backs all the time to engrave as Tudor but these 1 6200 case backs are much too thin.

[Lo']

On 2/6/2019 at 10:57 PM, Drummania said:

My 1016 with 16014 case, yuki dial and JMB bezel



The 16200 case is much taller. Here is my 114270 Franken






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Wow! This is a gorgeous build! the original black-dialed 1016 is one of the most beautiful and understated watches ever built… I tried to achieve something similar but I still have a long way to go:

First and foremost the triangle on Yuki's dial: Much too small.

Hands, Yuki again, a big tell especially the seconds one which appears too flat, short and with a truncated tip.

Case should be a reshaped JMB v1 or 2 and incorrect caseback.

Movement is a 21j clone 

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Lo'

[Lo']

Today on a very old leather strap for a more vintage look.

I have been looking up the 'usual suspects' (Watchbandit, Bulang, Geckota, Hirsch) for a Siena Brown strap, but could not find any I'd fancy. Any suggestion on alternatives to the above strap makers?

 

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[JSebWC]

Looks good on a strap.

I’ve started making single pass straps out of super soft upholstery grade leather.


Feather optional but thought I would try it out.






Also got some case-backs laser engraved for my explorers. Inspired by the 60’s 1016 brochure with the nautical star and Milky Way.





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[automatico]

"I've built one Day-Date from the rep case and the 2834 with plastic spacer for day wheel fit perfectly."

 

Thanks, mystery solved.  That's why the dial opening is so big...2834 and DD dial.

Hope to get to the '1016' soon but I keep misplacing (losing) parts on my ongoing projects.  Today it's a mia clutch wheel from a 1970s Unitas 6431-6445 powered pocket watch.  Looks like I am going to start working in a wash tub.

 

Heard about an old watch guy who used to take pocket watches apart on a little bench down in a high sided 4 claw leg bath tub.

...with a plug in the drain of course. 

[Lo']

"I've built one Day-Date from the rep case and the 2834 with plastic spacer for day wheel fit perfectly."
 
Thanks, mystery solved.  That's why the dial opening is so big...2834 and DD dial.
Hope to get to the '1016' soon but I keep misplacing (losing) parts on my ongoing projects.  Today it's a mia clutch wheel from a 1970s Unitas 6431-6445 powered pocket watch.  Looks like I am going to start working in a wash tub.
 
Heard about an old watch guy who used to take pocket watches apart on a little bench down in a high sided 4 claw leg bath tub.
...with a plug in the drain of course. 

Please don't do that. Just box the totality of your stuff and mail it to me. I'll be honoured to keep a vigilant eye on it for you. This way you will never loose anything ever again.

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[Lo']

I thought I'd share this pic because it's the one in which I've finally managed to capture something that has been eluding me so far: The way light dramatically changes the colour of the dial which, shifts from an almost lemony yellow under harsh direct light, to light brown, deep orange, siena, dark brown and finally almost black. This is Amazing...

[automatico]

"Please don't do that. Just box the totality of your stuff and mail it to me. I'll be honoured to keep a vigilant eye on it for you. This way you will never loose anything ever again."

 

Ha!  You never know what might happen.

 

I found the missing clutch wheel.  I dropped a watch strap on the floor of my 'shop' and when I picked it up the clutch wheel was right beside it.  Very strange,  I had gone over the floor with a bright light and powerful magnet the day before.

The Baylor pocket watch with UT 6431-6445 is running again.  I bought it new in June 1977 at Zale Jewelers and it stopped running 15 or 20 years ago...old oil gummed it up.

 

[Lo']

17 hours ago, automatico said:

Ha!  You never know what might happen.

I found the missing clutch wheel.  I dropped a watch strap on the floor of my 'shop' and when I picked it up the clutch wheel was right beside it.  Very strange,  I had gone over the floor with a bright light and powerful magnet the day before.

The Baylor pocket watch with UT 6431-6445 is running again.  I bought it new in June 1977 at Zale Jewelers and it stopped running 15 or 20 years ago...old oil gummed it up.

 

Well thanks a lot Auto. The wealth of informations you provide with each post is outstanding! So this movement should be an Unitas right?

[automatico]

"So this movement should be an Unitas right?"

 

Yes, it is a 6431-6445.  It has both numbers stamped on it.  They have a very good reputation and were put in a lot of Swiss pocket watches in the 1960s and 1970s. 

It is a little bit bigger than the UT/ETA 6497/6498.

UT 6431-6445  18.5''  Dm= 41.0mm,  Do= 41.7mm,  4.7mm thick

ETA/UT 6497/6498  16.5'''  Dm= 36.6mm,  Do= 37.2mm,  4.5mm thick  (from Ranfft website)

[Lo']

"So this movement should be an Unitas right?"
 
Yes, it is a 6431-6445.  It has both numbers stamped on it.  They have a very good reputation and were put in a lot of Swiss pocket watches in the 1960s and 1970s. 
It is a little bit bigger than the UT/ETA 6497/6498.
UT 6431-6445  18.5''  Dm= 41.0mm,  Do= 41.7mm,  4.7mm thick
ETA/UT 6497/6498  16.5'''  Dm= 36.6mm,  Do= 37.2mm,  4.5mm thick  (from Ranfft website)

Thanks a lot for the constant stream of knowledge Auto!
And speaking of pocket watches there's one I'd be eager to sport around, but apparently it's not been replicated as of yet (and I guess it will never be)...


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