Guest TTK Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 (edited) If you have recently bought an Arktos / Submersible.......please be advised that there are some quality issues with these.....regardless of which dealer you bought it from....I think the same problems are manifesting themselves uniformly across the board...and on teh same items....! The bezel legends on the Arktos are very unstable....prone to falling off.....the reason for this is a combination of factors...! 1. They are simply 'glued' on.....no screws or other fitment to retain them...! 2. The 'recess' that they fit into...is extremely shallow......in fact immeasurable by any instrument that I have....! 3. Whatever fixing method the factory uses...is extremely poor.....! I had 2x of the square intermediate markers between 12 and 6 fall off......fortunately I was indoors at the time and using a BIIIG light....I was able to find them....and secure them back into place using Araldite super epoxy......but I still have concerns that if the bezel gets 'knocked' against a hard surface ...either the newly fixed or other unfixed letters / markers may pop off also....! The same also applies to the Submersible.....! I have notified my supplier who is going to speak to the factory..I advised her that this was not just a problem with her factory...but that items supplied by other dealers were also experiencing this problem.....let's hope they come up with a solution......ain't no fun looking at a hole on the bezel where the letter W used to reside....! In addition to the above....I would like to suggest that ANYONE buying ANY Panerai make sure that the screws in EVERY area are Loc-Tited in place...use the non-permanent type........these screws are difficult to get hold of once they take a walk...particularly Radiomir caseback screws......strap lug retainer screws.....and crown guard screws on the Luminor series.......! JMO...! Edited April 1, 2006 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrooz Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Good advice for PAM's - I understand that nail varnish - the wife's of course, an colourless, unless you want big pink spots all over your lovely watch!!! - will do the trick just as well. A heated screwdriver tip will go through it easily when the time comes to remove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 @dcrooz.....varnish is a good alternative for screws that are in situ......the legends on the bezel are a different proposition entirely....the bezel is probably the most 'exposed' part of a watch.....simply ask all the members who have lost a bezel pearl from their Sub...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrooz Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 @dcrooz.....varnish is a good alternative for screws that are in situ......the legends on the bezel are a different proposition entirely....the bezel is probably the most 'exposed' part of a watch.....simply ask all the members who have lost a bezel pearl from their Sub...! Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Good advice Neil! And for anyone missing a screw of the Radiomir modells... these are for sale at any local Panerai dealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipop Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 You're talking about the markers on the bezel, not the bezel itself right? The markers look pretty tight in my Arktos but I do see some glue residue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Looking pretty tight....and being pretty tight are two different things....my markers were simply glued on.......don't know what with.....I have no faith in Superglue....2 part epoxy resins are my weapon of choice....Araldite being the best.....it'll stick a policeman to his beat.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Excellent advice Neil - thanks for that. Yes the markers seem to be stuck on with some kind of clear resin glue (its not superglue) and the slightest knock can take them off. Also the letters are very sharply cut and the edges can easily catch on clothing which could also rip them off. Loctite make a thread lock which is red coloured and will do a perfect job of securing the screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faber Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 thanks for the info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Helpful info Neil. On the screws, I always immediately loctite any small screws. What I am wondering about are on the new 7750 Subs with the "12 click" bezels. I would be curious to know if they are attached in the same shoddy manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 After 12 o'clock you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMK000 Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 two models that i will order......in time. jf. ... thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchwatcher Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 (edited) neil, there is no real good fix that a factory can make other than have the bezel markers NSEW cut or cast from the same piece of steel as the bezel itself. I had a polex YM with a crown emblem (much like the NSEW mkrs) which was spot welded to the clasp. It broke off eventually and no method of supergluing would keep in place for more than a few weeks -- i eventually gave up and polished the spot/indent where it was attached to the clasp. On a bezel, the spot/indent remains an eyesore and cannot be polished away. I'm concerned that unless the factories take the step to do these bezels right, this will remain a problem. I asked another dealer about this and he suggested that the cost of doing the bezel in the manner would be prohibitive... a shame, big shame. BTW, thanks for being straight with us... that counts big time to me. Edited April 1, 2006 by Watchwatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 (edited) dont undrestimate glue! there is even glue which keeps parts of the stealthbomber together whilst it's flying at 1000mph so i'm pretty sure there is a way to glue them letters to the bezel so they will NOT fall off! the only question is - do the chinese have the right glue? Edited April 1, 2006 by slay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBombadil Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Thanks for the warning TTK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shultz Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 (edited) I'll give my Arktos to my friend who is a goldsmith next week. I asked him for removing all bezel legends, cleaning and polishing them and then soldering them back on to the bezel. He will do that work as he is doing on other metals. I'll try that way because I am a fan of 'old school' craftmansship and not all that epoxy stuff... :yucky: We will see if it works. By the way: Great advice, Neal, thx a lot! Edited April 1, 2006 by shultz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swemoose Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Post some pictures when it's finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Soldering is the best method.......unfortunately the high temperatures required for steel may be a problem......jewellery soldering is very different.....gold and silver / platinum etc are more malleable and easier to work with.....but then my experience goes back a long way....things have probably changed.....! BTW,....as far as 'glue' is concerned.......there is no better glue than what is available to the dental profession.....think about it....it has to perform under hourly stress ...in a very hostile...wet / bacteria / hot environment.....! I don't think somehow...that's what the Chinese are using....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 (edited) Soldering is the best method.......unfortunately the high temperatures required for steel may be a problem......jewellery soldering is very different.....gold and silver / platinum etc are more malleable and easier to work with.....but then my experience goes back a long way....things have probably changed.....! BTW,....as far as 'glue' is concerned.......there is no better glue than what is available to the dental profession.....think about it....it has to perform under hourly stress ...in a very hostile...wet / bacteria / hot environment.....! I don't think somehow...that's what the Chinese are using....! maybe some dentist can get a hold of that glue! but i think you need this special "light" in order to make the glue stick to the material and dry and yes soldering them can be dangerous, because at a certain temperature steel will andoize which would look stupid if you have a blue anodized bezel Edited April 1, 2006 by slay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Thanks for the infos. This has been my concern that put me off from buying the Arktos rep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Thanks Neil. On close inspection, I can see that it is glued, because there is a slight overrun. I'm out to get some Araldite super epoxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 (edited) @slayer......you're thinking of the 'light curing' cyanoacrylates......there are other dental and medical cyanocrylate mediums which cure at room temperature.....or with visible light......we have a few 'medical' members and a few in the dentistry profession...i'm sure some of those guys would know...! @Robert......Araldite or UHU ...Loctite ..super epoxy packs will do the job...and prevent them from just falling off.....better than Superglue......Superglue doesn't have high 'impact' resistance...! About 15-25 years ago...I used to race bikes......not motor bikes...time trialling and road racing bikes....I had an Italian frame made by a company called Alan...( badged as a Paolo Guerciotti ).....it used aluminium and the tubes were swaged and heated to expand..... the inside of the main head tube / seat stays etc etc.....were then sprayed with a quick curing aircraft epoxy resin.......you could NOT break that thing apart......it was so well set......unfortunately there was too much 'flex' in the seat and chainstays.....so quick sprinting was a sever test of the aluminium tubing.....which usually cracked before the lugs would release....! Edited April 1, 2006 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 hmmm... dental "glue"? I think i have seen it and I have been treated using this. It's like mixing 2 things (colourful, green and red if i remember correctly) together... and it's made in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 I admire you for being the first dealer to bring this issue out into the public forum ! This was the main issue that many of us were holding back on these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 what really sucks is that the 187 should have the same issue and there are members here who have spend nearly 1000$ on that watch! and they didnt even get a swiss movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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