Phong complete watch 7032 ? advices ?

[iobot]

Hi , first , i hope everyone is fine ! 

 

i wanted to make my own watch but i find that phong makes complete watch like the 7032 ( link ) 

 

someone has already bought a complete watch from him ? do you have any feedback on the quality ? advices ? 

 

thanks 

[tychofc]

Here's a thread about the ETA 6538 I bought from Phong's son Jensen...https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/vintage-watches/8178297-rolex-6538-high-end-viet-build-a-cautionary-tale

[Sogeha]

Well that kind of fits with my experience. I didn’t originally answer because I have no idea about the 7032. A few years ago I bought a Phong 5508. The case is beautiful. The dial was crap, utter crap and the hands were just the wrong shape. Slowly it has been rebuilt.
Now I only buy cases from Phong and only for models I can’t get elsewhere. I do like his cases


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[automatico]

"Price of it was a shock - £1500 / $2000 US".

"If it had been a HR 6538 at $500 then it would have been slightly more understandable."

 

Imho that sums it up.

 

I have never had a replica 6538 or toot 7032 but do like 55xx models.  Besides that...for a basically simple watch like a 6538, it would probably be difficult to put one together that looks genuine because most of the aftmkt cases and dials are simply not too hot.  The spring wire mounted plated brass bezels can also be a headache because they can be difficult to mount/remove and easy to damage or break.  Looks to me like a toot 7032 would also be a real PIA because of the 45 minute Val 7734.  Old mech chronographs can equal $$ and trouble because most 'Eta Guys' we would know do not work on them.   You end up on Main Street paying the Doctor Price. 

Otoh the 7733/34 is pretty good, it is basically what the 7750 started out from...stamped out parts, no column wheel.

 

I have put a lot of watch projects together and my advice is to spend enough to get a good case, dial, and hands if you can.  The rest of it does not show so go with Eta etc and always go with a movement with a beat rate close to the original when possible.  Also make sure the holes in the lugs are not bored too close to an edge because you will be reminded of it every time you look at the side of the watch and this is a flaw that can not be easily corrected.  If a watch has crown guards they can be detailed as long as there is enough metal in them and on the 55xx/1680 cases look for the 'droop' of the crown guards because many ↑$$↑ high grade cases may not have it.  The dial and movement combo needs to be securely mounted together in the case and not Scotch taped to the movement.  Attention to details separate the Watch Men from the Watch Boys on project watches.

 

Considering that a 'Ruby' case is close to the fit and finish of a Phong case, I would go for the lower priced case.     

[Sogeha]

Absolutely my point above. Phong offers some cases the other Vietnam sources currently do not. Ruby’s 1680 is a 5513 case. I go to Phong when I can’t get what I need for half his prices

When I first became active here, instead of lurking, I was all into Frankens with genuine movements. Times have changed, prices have changed and the repair parts situation has changed. I followed your advice, a good low beat ETA is where I’m at these days


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[automatico]

"When I first became active here, instead of lurking, I was all into Frankens with genuine movements. Times have changed, prices have changed and the repair parts situation has changed. I followed your advice, a good low beat ETA is where I’m at these days."

 

Me too.

I killed off almost all of my Frankensteins because of the parts situation and removed all genuine rlx movements from them except for one, a 1570/75 with a genuine MK1 Lemrich 1680 matte dial in a David Wong '1680' case, I left it in the DW case to keep it sealed up.  On an MBK '5512' F-stein I removed the 1570 movement and put an Eta 2879 in it and the watch turned out real good.  It looks exactly the same and runs close to the same way it did before. 

I still have one F-stein project on the burner, a Phong cased 1655 but it is only about half done.  I'll probably go ahead and finish it because I have the movement and nowhere else to put it. 

 

"Ruby’s 1680 is a 5513 case."

 

DW '5513' cases are really '1680' cases.

 

Sticky note on DW cases:

DW 5513 and 1680 cases...

These are all really 1680 spec cases (more or less) so if you have one with 5513 stamped on it, a 1520 and 26mm 5513 dial will mount up in the case but the dial is a bit too small for the dial window and will also be too far from the dial seat. What you end up with is a 26mm dial in a 26mm dial window with the dial mounted about .8mm below the dial seat and nothing holding the dial in place except the dial screws. I did make a very thin spacer out of aluminum to fill in the space on one DW '5513' but it took a long time to make the spacer in a lathe because it was so thin and flimsy. I had to finish it up in an old 8mm WW type 'bezel chuck' made in the 1920s. WW = regular watchmaker lathe.  'Bezel chuck' = a chuck that looks like a steel wheel with concentric grooves cut in it. It will expand or contract a few mm to accommodate small, thin bezel rings etc.

DW cases are a low $$ alternative to expensive 'genspec cases' but you will need a genspec bezel kit, crystal, tube, crown etc. Also...as I have mentioned many times before, the DW cases have rounded case sides like a DJ and not flat like a submariner. They could be sanded flat on a disc grinder or by hand but it would take a lot of careful work. One good thing about the rounded case sides is they make the watch look like an old 'high mileage' example with a storied history after they get sufficiently scuffed up. I have seen a few genuine 1680/5512/13 with the case sides rounded from years of wear and numerous polish jobs so there are genuine examples with rounded case sides in circulation.

 

Sticky note on a DW Frankenstein '5513' project with prices:

Here is the info on one of my MBK 5513 projects a few years ago, 2011 or 2012 iirc (I have posted this before).  It ended up costing about $1300.  I still have it but it is apart right now. (still apart 4-17-20)
$300 or less for case (can not remember exact $$, got it from a member)
$102 for Yuki dial
$25 for TC tube and crown
$12 for ST hands
$650 for 26 jewel rolex 1520 (hack) mvt
$20 for mainspring etc
$0 for c/o  (did it myself)
$85 for fake 358 hoods and put together '93150' bracelet, also have a folded oyster from 'Mary' that adds up to about the same
$12 for GS crystal
$68 for ST bezel kit (better fit than MBK bez with the GS crystal that was used)
$25 misc...spring bars, gaskets, case screws etc

 

Had to use a 1575 date center wheel/cp and calendar spacer on the 1520 because the MBK 5513 case is made to 1680 spec, not 5513 spec (but uses a 5512/13 26.0mm dial).  Extra cost is included with movement.  If you want to make up an MBK 5512/13 it would be easier to start out with a date movement (1570/75) and just remove the date works.  If you do not want a '5513' with a chronometer movement, many of the early 5512 did not have the 'officially certified chronometer' blurb on the dials and they looked like a 5513 except for the movement and reference number so you could make an early '5512' with a '5513' dial.  As far as time keeping...the 1520s I have owned kept time about as good as the 'certified chronometer' 15xx movements.  Most have been apart 5 or 10 times by now and very few watch fixers worry with them if they are within 10 or 12 seconds a day.  The 1570/5 in my MBK '5512' has gained about 10 seconds since Tuesday and that's pretty good for a 45 or 50 year old no hack movement (most were hack after 1972).
The center sweep sec pivot is the same on 1520/30/60/70 and 1575, the date movements have a second hand with a longer tube, GMT second hand tube is longest of all.

[alligoat]

I've heard the stories about Phong builds before- you generally pay a high price for a mediocre build.

But with the 7032, it's not so badly overpriced. Consider the 7734 movement- say you pick one up on ebay with the correct 45 minute sub dial for $600, ok, then you need to figure a service- these are typically 40 year old movements, and that's another $300. 

Next up is the case and dial- Phong and Ruby are your usual suspects. Plus you'll need hands and a few other misc. parts. So say there goes another $750- just my educated guess.

Then you have to get a watchmaker to put it together- say another $250, maybe....

So you're up just under $2K. But t least you have a serviced movement- I've seen cases where Phong will put an unserviced movement in there and correcting his shoddy build may cost you a few more dollars. 

But at any rate, building a 7032 isn't a cheap proposition.

Wonder if a ST-19 would work?

[automatico]

"But at any rate, building a 7032 isn't a cheap proposition."

 

They sure ain't cheap now.

I can not look a Monte Carlo in the face since I paid $275 for one that looked like new September 4, 1997 at a local pawn shop, also bought a like new tooter 94010 with b/p for $425 on June 6, 1998.  I keep records going back 35+ years but it makes me feel dumb when I look at the records now because it seems like I sold everything too soon even when I got the price of the day.  I had a lot of tooters in the trading days and did not even write most of them up.  Did not write rolex watches bought for parts up or most quartz watches under $100 either.  Got a genuine mid size Cartier Tank Francaise on a steel bracelet at the trading table in October 2005 for $100 and it's a wonder I wrote it up because quartz watches like that went across the table every weekend...Concord, Ebel, Cartier, quartz tooter, etc.  Still have two tutone quartz Ebel Sport Waves from back then...one was $40 and the other was $0, a trader gave it to me because the dealer wanted too much to put a battery in it and local watch fix-it shops would not touch it.  Have a couple 1911 tutone quartz models from back then too.  I always liked Ebel watches, Ebel made Cartier Santos Tank watches under contract back then, probably some other models too.

I still have 15 or 20 1960s/1970s Bulova dressy '333' Oceanographers with 10k gold bezels in a box marked 'OO'...probably because they were not worth very much.

 

I found one for sale on eBay just now for $333.33.

One dollar a meter.  Looks like they have come up from the depths.

 

"Wonder if a ST-19 would work?"

 

Good question.

 

Valjoux 7734 Date
14''', Dm= 31.0mm, Do= 31.3mm
H= 6.65mm
F= 1.25mm
T= 2.5mm
17 jewels
f = 18000 A/h
power reserve 45h

The basic Val 7730 was the Venus 188 starting out, Valjoux renamed it and added the date along with a three register 7736 model etc.

　

7750 ND/D/DD etc.
13.25''', Dm= 30.0mm, Do= 30.4mm
H= 7.9mm
F= 1.9mm
T= 3.0mm
17/25 jewels
f = 28800 A/h
power reserve 46h

The 7750 is basically a quick set automatic three register Val 7736.

 

ST19
13.75''', Dm= 31.0mm, Do= 31.3mm
H= 5.85mm
(dial plate +0.4mm, Fig.3)
F= 0.5mmmm
T= 1.8mm
19 jewels
f = 21600 A/h
power-reserve 51h

Basically a souped up Chinese Venus 175.