Genuine DJ dial on other movements??

[Gmoney88]

Hi all,

 

I have a genuine datejust DIAL that I inherited from my dad - I want  to build a watch around it.

 

I found a clone 3135 movement that will take the dial, but I cant find a case to fit the 3135 clone - the cases I  see online all seem to take NH35/36 or ETA 2824.

 

- Can I fit the gen rolex dial on  NH or 2824 movements? How? will the dial feet and date window fit?

- Is there a good place to get a 3135 case? Far easier in theory but im at my wit's end looking...

 

Its for a hobby project, I kind of want to honor the original dial from my dad.

 

Thank you!!

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Gmoney88

[Revere]

You'd have to cut the dial feet off and mount new feet to the dial (kinda difficult for a novice, and is irreversible in a literal sense, though you can install feet in the original positions again if you wish).

 

What type of DJ is this dial for? You might be able to get a nice rep case, or just hunt for a gen case if it's a vintage model. Maybe some of the usual suspects like raffles/MQ/phong/Ruby will have DJ cases, though maybe unlikely since these are comparatively less popular models 

[Revere]

Also, if you trim the dial feet and fit to an ETA, you will need a good "date wheel overlay" or DWO for the movement to show the date correctly in the window.

Mounting this DWO is a huge pain in the ass, and finding a nice one is a bit of a challenge these days I think. 

 

if it were me i'd use a 3135 clone movement and find a nice case for it. I think that would be easier overall, but might require more patience

[automatico]

"Mounting this DWO is a huge pain in the ass, and finding a nice one is a bit of a challenge these days I think."

"If it were me i'd use a 3135 clone movement and find a nice case for it. I think that would be easier overall, but might require more patience."

 

 Good advice.  

 

On aftermarket 36mm DJ cases:

Cases made for 'Asian 21 jewel' movements, ETA 2836, and Asian etaclone 2836 movements may be a little bit thicker than cases made for 3135 clones and ETA 2824 spec movements but usually not enough to be noticed.  'Usually' being the key word here with anything replica.

Common 'Asian 21 jewel' movements are DG, NN etc. patterned after genuine Miyota (Citizen) cal 82xx movements.

 

Cases made for the 3135 clone movements will usually also accept ETA 2824 and Asian etaclone 2824 movements.  Usually. 

Asian 3135 clone movements come in two or three versions, read up on them and get the best one.

The downside is there is no spare parts network. 

 

Problems:

Any Swiss or Asian etaclone 2824/2836 will need a date wheel overlay (aka DWO) so the date numbers will line up in the date opening in the dial, both genuine dials and 'in spec' aftmkt dials.  DWOs are available on eBay etc.

The 2836 movement is relatively easy to install a date wheel overlay on because it has more room between the date wheel and dial after the day of the week works are removed.  The date also flips instantly on 2836 movements like a genuine modern Rolex but the 2824 changes the date slowly.  The 2824 date wheel is also closer to the dial and the date wheel overlay may rub the dial.

What is the fix? 

Use the spacer for a 2836 to raise the dial away from the date wheel overlay...but then the shorter 2824 hour wheel etc. mounts the hands too close to the dial.  Many modders have used the 2824 hour wheel, canon pinion etc. with a DWO and spacer but the hands have to be straight and mounted very carefully. 

 

It all boils down to:

Asian 3135 clones do away with all the DWO and dial hassles, but repair parts are not generally available and overall quality can vary.

 

A new or freshly serviced Swiss ETA 2836 with a proper DWO and a high quality aftmkt case is probably the most reliable solution but with three downsides:

1...You have to cut the dial feet off.

2...You need a DWO.

3...It can be expensive if you can not do the work yourself.

 

You could do a 'trial run' with an aftmkt case and your choice of movements with a 3135 spec dial and see how it goes.

Rolex 3035 and 3135 take the same dials.  Here are some low priced 3035/3135 DJ dials if you want to do a trial run first:

 

Rolex Datejust Two-Tone Champagne Index Dial 36mm For Reference numb 16013 16233 | eBay

 

They might be a little bit 'rough' but the price is right.

 

Observation:

In the past 15 or 20 years, genuine used Rolex dials and cases have gone UP in price 200% to 500% or more so be prepared if you look for a genuine case. 

Besides that, many genuine cases can have serious case corrosion by now.  When I see a case or case back for sale pictured with the gasket in place, it makes me wonder what is hiding under the gasket.  The case sides where the bracelet attaches to the case is also a garden for corrosion, starting out with black specks and/or small pin holes.

Btw...NH movements are a dead end for Rolex DJ projects imho...very few Rolex spec parts made for them.

 

Cheap when I bought them 25/30 years ago but worth a (small) fortune now.  

A smart move?

Not really.

I sold today's valuable Rolex watches too soon and ended up with a collection of empty cases.     

(not for sale)

[Gmoney88]

Amazing advice guys thank you!

 

Ok im def gonna start with trying a different case before i begin cutting and sanding down dial feet...

 

What would be the best place to start - a 2824 case or a 2836 case?

 

I also found a 3135 case but its a Milgauss replica 39mm ( I have a 1994 36mm DJ dial) do you guys think that will work?

 

HUGELY appreciate your answers....

[Revere]

5 minutes ago, Gmoney88 said:

What would be the best place to start - a 2824 case or a 2836 case?

 

I also found a 3135 case but its a Milgauss replica 39mm ( I have a 1994 36mm DJ dial) do you guys think that will work?

 

 

 

Answering your first question: let your parts compatibility and priorities do the downselection for you. It sounds like you are hesitant to avoid modifying the dial, so this means you'll be using a 3135 movement instead of a 28xx movement.

 

Take a look at these web pages on Ranfft which have details about the movements you're considering, and take a look at the dimensions under "data." Look through the link "comments about the data" underneath to understand what each of these parameters physically refers to on the movement.

 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&ETA_2824_2
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&ETA_2836_1
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Rolex_3035

 

You will understand that a case designed to fit a 2824 might not fit a 2836, and might not fit a 3135 movement. This is because of different stem heights and diameters of the movements. Clever uses of spacers/shims can allow a case to be used for multiple movements, but unless there is an explicit statement in the listing saying it'll fit a 3135 movement (or unless you have confirmation from someone knowledgeable), I would not buy that case. Focus on finding a case that will fit a 3135 movement. 

To answer your second question: it would fit the movement you want to use, but it's possible your dial will be too small for the dial opening in the case. In a watch the dial with diameter D is pressed against a "dial lip" which has a diameter slightly lower than D. This means the outer periphery of the dial is hidden underneath the dial lip when viewing the watch from in front. If your dial is too small, it'll "fall through" the dial lip into the area underneath the crystal, and this means the whole movement/dial assembly will be floppy within the case (i.e. this does not work, you must find a case that fits your dial). If you know the diameter of the dial that's supposed to fit that watch, and if it's within a small range of your dial, then it'll work. If the case is cheap enough you could buy it, get some calipers, take some measurements, do the same with your dial, then draw a conclusion.

[freddy333]

On 6/29/2023 at 8:08 AM, Gmoney88 said:

- Is there a good place to get a 3135 case?

 

There are a number of 36mm DJ cases for sale on ebay. If it were me, that is where I would head. Same for a crystal & any other gen parts.
Good luck.

[pompompurin]

For quick and simple solution, I recommend using the Korean 16200 case. They can accept gen parts, including 3135 movement:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403887010101

 

For adventurous solution, I reshape Rafflesdial 2824-2 Datejust 36mm case, increase the rehaut diameter, make custom movement ring and tabs, mill the caseback, and shoehorn a 3135 movement into it.

Edited July 4, 2023 by pompompurin

[automatico]

"I recommend using the Korean 16200 case. They can accept gen parts, including 3135 movement..."

 

It looks very good but an unsigned case for $500 USD (including shipping) is pretty steep imho.

 

"For adventurous solution, I reshape Rafflesdial 2824-2 Datejust 36mm case, increase the rehaut diameter, make custom movement ring and tabs, mill the caseback, and shoehorn a 3135 movement into it."

 

I can go along with that.   

 

I have stuck a few DJ projects together and here is what I look for:

1...Case will accept oem spec case tube, crystal gasket, and crystal.  If oem spec crystals fit, oem spec bezels will too.

2...Case is correct thickness within .5 to 1.0mm.

3...Case tube centerline will work with stem location in movement to be used.

4...Case has a groove milled inside for case clamps/screws.  Very important because plastic spacers need to be avoided.

5...Case has lug holes already drilled through the lugs if needed for the project.  It is extremely hard to drill all four holes evenly without special tools or very good luck.

6...Case must accept 27.9mm oem spec DJ dials if oem spec dials are to be used.  Some aftmkt cases use larger dials and oem spec dials fall through or just barely catch.

7...Cases made like the 16200 series with an O ring gasket in the case works better than a flat gasket on the case back.

 

If a bracelet or 'Riyi type' strap links are to be used, there is no need for letters/numbers on the case band between the lugs. 

No real need for case back letters/numbers at all.

 

I've had trouble with stamped sheet metal bracelet end links (aka hoods) fitting cases but have always been able to trim them to fit.  SEL end links may be an exception because there can be a lot of metal to reshape. 

Stamped end links with tubes soldered inside the fold do not move around as much but can be a hassle if the hood tubes and case lug holes do not line up. 

I sometimes have to curve the spring bars slightly to make things fit and this is easy with stamped hoods, but not so easy with 'Riyi' types and SEL. 

The soldered tubes in aftmkt hoods also break away from the hood fairly easily.

 

'Riyi' type strap hoods:   eBay item number  143281479840

 

FYI on 18k replica cases...

With current gold prices close to $2000 per Troy ounce, my 39 gram (inc/bezel) 18K replica 36mm DJ case is now worth around $1800 at full scrap price.  The case was made in Italy and is oem spec except it was made for a larger than oem dial.

So...if you see one in very good condition for $1200 or $1500 it would be a fair price, unless gold prices drop drastically after you buy it.

New Italian made unsigned 18K DJ 36mm cases are $5245 at ST...without a bezel, 18K submariner cases are $6795 with  a bezel.

Asian made cases are quite a bit less if you can find them.

 

 

 

[alligoat]

I'm with pompompurin on this- buy the Korean case. Granted you'll have to buy a crystal, bezel, crown, a set of hands and a VR3135 or VS3135 movement. But I think you'll be happier in the long run.

Another option would be to buy a 36mm rep DJ with a 3135 movement in it and swap in your dial. These would likely be the later DJs- 116200 or the 126200, but this would be a cheaper route.